Beyond the Job Board: How to Get Hired in a Tough Job Market

Looking for work right now is hard. On this bonus episode of Find Your Dream Job, Mac steps into the guest seat alongside executive career strategist Gina Riley for the Intel Alumni Network’s Path to Next series. Mac and Gina name what many job seekers are feeling right now. The market has tightened with fewer roles, more applicants, and easy-apply tools that leave too many qualified professionals sending out thoughtful résumés into silence.

What sets you apart is knowing the job you’re after, building a short list of employers you’d love to work for, and pursuing organizations rather than openings. Mac and Gina discuss how to ask for an informational interview, why a referral carries more weight than an online application, and how to follow up when someone goes quiet without feeling like a pest. Their parting advice is: don’t wait to be picked; being qualified isn’t enough in this job market.

About the Host:

• Gina Riley is an executive career strategist and the author of the book Qualified Isn’t Enough: Develop Your Story. Land the Interview. Win the Job.

Resources in This Episode:

• Connect with Gina on LinkedIn
• Check out Gina’s book, Qualified Isn’t Enough: Develop Your Story. Land the Interview. Win the Job.
• Check out the Intel Alumni Network.

Transcript

Find Your Dream Job, Bonus Episode 93:

Beyond the Job Board: How to Get Hired in a Tough Job Market

Airdate: July 6, 2026

Mac Prichard:

This is Mac Prichard, founder of Mac’s List.

As a listener to Find Your Dream Job, I know you’re interested in learning how to find work and improve your career.

I’m often asked by other podcasts to share insights from my work with the job seekers and employers who use Mac’s List.

So every other week we’re publishing one of these conversations.

Here’s one of my guest interviews that I think you’ll enjoy.

James Cape:

Hi everyone. Many of you know me. My name is James Cape. I’m the current president of the Intel Alumni Network. And welcome to another Path to Next career development series designed to help Intel alums navigate what’s next with clarity, confidence, and community.

Believe it or not, this is the sixteenth time that we have leaned on Gina Riley to help run this event.

Building on our momentum going into and coming out of Q1, going into Q2, we’re going to continue this monthly cadence. In addition, we are also beginning to produce what we call partner events, such as a joint interview I just did with Bill Fernandez, who, believe it or not, you can check this out on various sites.

He is the third co-founder of Apple. And we had a discussion about being born and raised in Silicon Valley and what that was like.

In addition, we are working with a group out of London and Gibraltar named Rayon that is focused on basically an AI think tank slash incubator. And we are doing regular presentations to Rayon to both expand our scope and our influence with the Intel alumni network and to have meaningful discussions around AI.

We are also holding our first nonprofit fast pitch event, connecting alums with meaningful ways to give back.

In addition to regional chapter events like the Arizona AI event, which was held yesterday, and the first in a great while for the Greater Midwest Intel Alums Gathering to be held on April 23rd at 5:30 p.m., for additional details please contact Howard Jacob. You all know him. And most importantly, guys, on May 19th at 6 p.m. at the Institute of Contemporary Art in San Jose.

We will host our first in-person fundraising event, bringing together art, AI, and community. That’s, in fact, what the exhibit’s gonna be about: the intersection between those three things.

Art, AI, and community. I encourage you to attend. Tickets are $50, and we will need to limit the number of attendees to between 50 and 100. So once we get that promotion out, please consider attending.

And as always, remember this is an all-volunteer-led organization. Your time, engagement, and financial support make all of this possible. And with that, Gina, you have the floor, and I’m going dark.

Gina Riley:

Thank you so much. I’m so excited to be here with everyone today. Thank you to everyone for telling us where you’re dialing in from in the chat. As you know, if you have been here before, the chat is for the chat.

And then we have a QA for on-topic questions that would relate to what Mac, Prichard, and I are talking about today. Periodically in the chat, I will be dropping Mac’s links, like the ways to follow him on LinkedIn.

His organization, where the job board is, is the next event that we’re promoting in May that he’s hosting. So all of that will be in the chat periodically. But first, I just want to say I am so excited to be joined by Mac Prichard. I’m gonna do a quick intro.

So, Mac is the founder of Mac’s List. It’s a job board and career hub serving the Pacific Northwest for over two decades.

And it connects thousands of job seekers and employers together. His platform reaches tens of thousands of professionals each month through its site and newsletter. So if you’re not on that newsletter, you might want to get on that if you’re a job seeker.

He’s the host of the Find Your Dream Job podcast. And it’s got how many millions of downloads, Mac?

Mac Prichard:

Five million and counting. We’ve been at it for more than ten years now, Gina.

Gina Riley:

Goodness, okay, because when I interviewed you a few years ago, it was three million. So we have grown to five. And he has interviewed career experts, hiring managers, and leaders on what actually works in today’s job market.

And what I will say on a personal note is if there’s anyone out in the careers landscape that I’m either friends with or who I look up to, Mac has interviewed them on his show. The best of the best are right there.

With a background in communications across government, nonprofits, and public relations, Mac is known for practical, real-world job search advice and a strong point of view on why you can’t rely on job boards alone, which is remarkable because he runs a job board.

Mac, thank you for taking your valuable time to be here to share your wisdom with the Intel Alumni Network and our broader communities.

Mac Prichard:

Well, thank you, Gina. I appreciate the opportunity, and it’s an honor to be here.

Gina Riley:

Gosh, I’m so excited. So Mac and I, hello audience, have preloaded two polls that we want to throw out to you just because we want to hear who’s in the audience. And so Michael, my wizard in the background, is putting those up right now.

These are the two questions we have for you. One is: what percentage of your job search time do you spend applying online? So is that less than 10% of your time? About half, 50%, most of my time?

And then the second poll is how long have you been actively seeking employment? So we’ve got less than three months, three to six, and then more than six. This will give Mac and me just kind of a sense of you know what people might be feeling or thinking in our community at large. So we’ll leave this up for about a minute because we know that you’re all probably scrambling to your mouse pad right now.

So we’ve got a pretty even spread, Mac, on the percentage of time people are on job boards. We’ve got twenty-seven percent, thirty-eight, and thirty-five. So, we’ve got like twenty-five-ish, less than ten. Good on you folks, about fifty percent.

And then the people spending most of their time on a job board, Mac and I are going to hopefully share some things that help change the way that you think about what you’re how you’re working through your job search.

And then how long have you been actively seeking employment? So the bulk of the folks online right now answering the poll less than three months. Fantastic. And then we’ve got people in the middle spread. And then we have quite a few who are over six months.

So 51% that’s, that’s a lot. We feel your pain. We know that everyone’s out there actively working really hard. Right, Mac, we know how hard this is.

Mac Prichard:

And I’ve had a long career, Gina, and it included two long periods of unemployment. And so one time I cashed the last unemployment check after thirty weeks, and the second time I came within one check of doing it. So I understand what it’s like to have looked for work for a long period.

Gina Riley:

Yes, yes, absolutely. That is, and that’s because that’s part of your story. I think that’s why you’re such a luminary and empathetic voice for job seekers. And I appreciate how much content you bring for free every, you know, all the time through your podcasts.

So I’m gonna guide us through this conversation. I wanna remind the audience, please do put questions that are on topic in the QA. I’ll be managing that. So, Mac, you don’t need to do that.

And then the chat is for your chat amongst yourselves. So we’re gonna start right now. What’s the market, you know, what’s going on in the market right now? We know that there are a lot fewer opportunities and jobs that people can see in the landscape.

And so I’m curious, Mac, because you run a job board and you talk to employers too, not just job seekers, what are you seeing from your perspective right now in the market?

Mac Prichard:

Well, because our site serves employers and candidates in Oregon and Washington, I pay particular attention to the Pacific Northwest. And in this part of the country, it is an especially tough job market. Our unemployment rate in Oregon, for example, is the third highest in the country.

The national unemployment rate is not terrible. I think last month it was four point three percent. But what I’m hearing from my colleagues who run job boards and the career coaches and hiring experts I interview on my national podcast is that it’s taking longer for people to find jobs, and employers are taking longer to make hiring decisions.

So if you think it’s different now compared to the last time you were in the market, say three or four years ago, you’re not crazy. It is taking longer for hiring managers to make these choices, not only in the Pacific Northwest but across the US.

Gina Riley:

You know, I have my own assumptions about this, but you’re my expert today. Why do you think it’s taking longer?

Mac Prichard:

I think there are a couple of factors. If you look back to twenty-two and twenty-three, there was a boom in hiring because nothing happened in twenty and the first part of twenty-one. And in hindsight, it looks like employers overhired.

And so they’re making up for that now, four years, five years later. And I think while the unemployment rate is low nationally, there’s some uncertainty in the economy. People aren’t quite sure what the future might bring.

And when that happens, employers tend to look for ways to reduce risk. And one way to do that is to involve more people in hiring decisions. And so we’re hearing from candidates that HR directors are candidly reverting to old bad habits, and people say four years ago might have gotten an offer after one or two interviews.

Now they’re being put through three, four, five interviews, and more people are being involved in the decision. But understanding that also offers up some opportunities to make the system work for you, and we’re gonna talk about that as well.

Gina Riley:

My gosh, I love that. And I am seeing that too, particularly at the senior levels, where it is really risky to take on the wrong kind of leadership level higher. I have stories where I had one gentleman who was on his 21st interview, even though he’d been referred in and knew the CEO. So yeah, it’s really gut-wrenching.

And sometimes we can get all the way to the end and come in number two, and it feels like a reset. So that’s really difficult for our mental health as well.

So, staying kind of with the whole idea of, you know, applying online through job boards, why do more applications not translate into more interviews necessarily?

Mac Prichard:

Well, for a number of reasons. And first of all, I wanna say I run a job board. I’m very proud of the value it offers our readers, our candidates, our advertisers, and our employers.

But I’ll be the first to tell you you can’t rely on job boards alone to find the best employees and and the to find the best opportunities if you’re an applicant. So there are many more applications now for a number of reasons. One is the economy; there are fewer opportunities.

I do get data about job postings not only in Oregon and Washington, but across the country, and they’re down this year compared to last year, about four percent. So more people are chasing fewer opportunities. That’s one factor.

The other is that technology has made it so much easier to apply everywhere. And you know, that’s a double-edged sword, Gina. You can send out lots of applications, but you’re competing against people who are doing the same thing. And it makes it much more likely that your application will get lost in the blizzard of resumes.

Gina Riley:

That’s the perfect word, a blizzard. What would you say about it, because we have the easy apply, and we also have AI that people may or may not know how to use to its best capacity for applying? What are you seeing or hearing from employers about the generic applications that are coming through?

Mac Prichard:

What I’m hearing from employers is that they’re frustrated by the volume of applications they get, particularly from people using the easy apply button. And I don’t want to knock the easy apply button. Don’t misunderstand me.

If you are clear about the job you want and the target employers where you want to be, and you’ve done the networking that’s gonna generate the referrals that are gonna help you stand out from your competition.

Then, when you hit the easy apply button, it is indeed saving you time. But the easy apply button can be the devil’s candy. You know, let’s be candid. It’s tempting to keep hitting that and thinking that it’s a numbers game. And candidly, it’s not. And I would ask the people on the call today, just everybody here has done their share of hiring. And reflect on the power of connections and referrals in making hiring decisions.

And once you understand that, you keep that in mind, make that work for you when you’re sending out your own applications. The easy apply button’s a tool, but you can’t put all your eggs in that basket. I’m yeah.

Gina Riley:

Absolutely. Well, I just had a question percolate for me. I’m imagining I’m sitting in this audience right now, and the word that comes up is in the question, how? And how do I stand out beyond the application process? And you talked about differentiating yourself by holding conversations. That’s what I heard.

And I know one cool aspect on the job board, or I’m sorry, the Find Your Dream Job podcast, is that you interview job seekers who have landed, and you ask them how they went about it. And so I have a sense that you might even have a couple of things that you could list off. These are some creative ways people got in front of other people.

Mac Prichard:

Yes. And I should say about the show, it’s a weekly interview show, and I’ve been doing it since 2015. So I’ve talked to more than 500 career experts as well as almost a hundred candidates who found jobs that they love. And the same principles keep coming up again and again, Gina.

And the three basic fundamentals are that the people who have the most successful searches and are most attractive to employers do three things really well. First, they know what they want, and they get crystal clear about that before they start applying.

Second, they have a list of target employers, maybe fifteen, twenty, or thirty organizations that offer what they want. And so the candidate is clear about things like commutes and work hours and vacation time and professional opportunities.

And so they don’t apply everywhere. They build a list to target their efforts. And the third thing that people know is that they’re clear about what they offer, what their strengths are. So they’re not chasing every opportunity. And to your question, what do the candidates do to connect with others?

Because they have that clarity about the job they want and that short list of target employers, they’re chasing organizations, not jobs. They’re chasing employers. And that allows them to build the connections and get the referrals that are gonna make them stand out in that stack of two, three hundred resumes that tools like the easy apply button make possible.

Gina Riley:

I see. So it’s really about if you know the handful of target employers that you want to spend your time pursuing, then you have a reason to find individuals within those companies versus just looking at the landscape of all the jobs possible that you could apply to see if you’ll get a hit for an interview.

Mac Prichard:

Yes. And I say this with humility because I said this myself once early in my career. Stop saying I can do anything, or I’m keeping my options open. In order to have the most successful career and a successful job search, you’ve got to say no to things as well as yes.

And it is hard work. I’ve certainly struggled with it at points in my career to get clear about the job I want and to build that list of target employers. And there are a number of ways you can do that: working with a career coach, doing self-assessments, having informational interviews with people who have the job that interests you, or at the organizations where you think you might want to work.

And I found both personally and in my conversations with career coaches and employers that the people who do that work get pretty clear, get clear fairly quickly, about what it is they want to do. And that frees them up to, again, chase employers and the opportunities that they offer, but you have to have that clarity before you can do that.

Gina Riley:

I appreciate you saying that. I’ve had the honor and pleasure of working with a couple of people within the Intel alum community who have, you know, experienced the layoff, and they’re in a career transition. And not all, but most of them will say, I can do multiple things. And it’s three distinct job titles.

And so that starts to cloud what their headline is going to look like on LinkedIn, which is the most important thing to hit those drop-down menus for the recruiters who are paying for the recruiter search function.

It affects the job titles that they have, you know, in their past work experience, and then the way they describe what they can do, what that future focus is. And so I appreciate you bringing up that clarity because if you can, if you have a Swiss Army knife full of tools, and you can do three distinct things.

You need to consider doubling down on one of them and going hard on that for a while and seeing if you can get traction. But through the informational conversations, if something else kind of opens up a bit that looks like one of the other two things, pursue it. But that’s the beauty of the conversation. That’s how you uncover an opportunity. Would you agree?

Mac Prichard:

I do, absolutely. And remember, all of us will likely be in the workplace for forty years, and we’re not going to do the same job for four decades. And we all have multiple interests. So our jobs will change as our careers evolve. And to your point, it’s natural to be interested in perhaps three or more positions.

But ask yourself this: what is it you want to do for the next three to five, seven years? And if you’ve got a short list of three jobs that excite you, go out and talk to three people who do each of those jobs and ask them what it’s like, what how they they got there, think about objections you might be carrying around inside yourself and say, well, I would never get this position because of this, and turn it into a positive question.

What advice would you have for somebody who doesn’t have this credential or this background who wants to do this particular job? And if you have three to five conversations with people who are doing the job that interests you, you’ll figure out pretty fast which one is going to rise to the top.

And it’s going to save you so much time, Gina, because you’re doing the work up front instead of relying on the hiring process to do that work for you. Most people, many people, rather, will say, Well, I’m interested in these three jobs, I’ll send out applications.

And if you’re not absolutely certain which one you’re most excited about, your applications are going to reflect that. And when you get into the interviews, the employer wants to hire somebody who’s excited about that job.

And it’s not the best place to explore whether you are excited about it. You should do the informational interviews and the homework before you apply. Because when you do that again, that list of three positions that interest you is going to shrink to one.

And as you have those conversations, you’re going to build connections that will lead to referrals and help you uncover positions that aren’t advertised. And again, that’s going to help you stand out from the people who are just hitting the easy apply button.

And I say this again. Early in my career, I used to send out applications everywhere, ’cause I thought I could do that job. But you’re competing against people who know they want that job and who have invested the time to build the connections that are going to lead to the referrals that matter so much in hiring because employers want to reduce risk.

Gina Riley:

They want to reduce risk. I have one more nuanced question that I can sense is out in this community. And I’ve had it literally from VP-level people who are my clients asking me, and then I’m gonna turn to the QA because I’ve got about five questions. I want to try to get to a few of those. I have had my clients ask me, how do I get people to say yes to an informational conversation when it feels and looks like I’m job seeking, right?

So there’s that cloud that’s kind of lying over their head, maybe emotionally. But also, people inside these companies are working so hard, and they’re busy. We all know when we are employed, we’re deflecting anything that takes us off track.

So do you have any tips for, like, how do you get people to say yes to an informational without it coming off like I’m looking for a job?

Mac Prichard:

Be specific and set expectations up front. So an informational interview is a business meeting. And like any business meeting that you’re calling, you’re in charge. So you gotta set the agenda, and you’ve got to explain why you want people to be there and why they should say yes.

And another reason they’ll say yes is that you make it easy for them to say yes. So here again, I sent out notes like this thirty years ago. Here’s a note you don’t want to send. Hey, could we get together for coffee? I’d like to pick your brain.

And again, I’ve done this, so I get it. But here’s the problem with that, Gina. You’re not clear about what you want, how long it’s gonna take, and how someone can help you. Those are the three questions you gotta ask.

A way to do that is to send out an email that says, I’m writing you at the suggestion of so-and-so. I’m doing a job search. I’m interested in opportunities in this position working with these kinds of companies. I wonder if you might have 15 to 20 minutes to meet either virtually or at your office to talk about developments in the field. I and I, you know, here’s my online calendar.

If you’d like to find a time on my calendar or send me a link to yours. I’m also available typically on Tuesdays and Thursday mornings, but I can work with your schedule. Very specific. And you get an email like that, and you think, this person was referred to me by so and so, they want 20 minutes of my time. This is why they want to talk, and that makes it easy to say yes.

If you don’t have a referral, it’s okay. Just say just be clear about why you want the meeting. And a message like that makes it much more likely that you’re gonna get a response.

The other thing I’ll say is, look at your inbox. We’ve all got 50 to 100 messages, and it takes us a couple of days to get back. So don’t get discouraged if you don’t get a response. Just follow the rule of three and wait a week.

Write back, say just following up on this note from a week ago, and send your message at the top of the one you sent before. And then wait another week or two weeks and say, you know, I’m just following up. Don’t want to be a pest. Wondered if you might have time.

If you don’t hear after three attempts, let it go. There are so many other people out there who can help you, and don’t get discouraged. My experience is that you’ll hear after the second one.

Gina Riley:

Okay, let’s go ahead and take a couple of questions. I’ve got a couple of sharp ones that could be easy and quick to answer. Should candidates easy apply and apply on a company website? What is your opinion?

Mac Prichard:

If the position is if you’ve done that homework and you know this is the job that kind of job you want and this is one of your target employers, yes, use the easy apply.

But also invest time up front to build connections inside the organization so you can go to a connection and say, Hey, I’ve applied for this position. Is there anyone you think I should talk to, or could you put in a good word for me with the HR department?

That will increase your likelihood of getting a response. I think applying through the career page is good, too.

Gina Riley:

Better actually. Because the easy apply is typically going through a job board. Yeah. Where you’re racking up a lot of traffic from your name and your email and all of that, the way it’s tracked.

So, going to that this is just kind of my bent, I would go directly to, and it also eliminates a little less of the worry that a lot of people have about their just their information just being everywhere constantly.

Yeah, no, it’s a good point. Yeah.

I have another question. Do you have recommendations on which AI tools are best for looking for work?

Mac Prichard:

I think I don’t have a specific tool that I would recommend. I think AI tools, such as Gemini or ChatGPT, can be useful for building lists of employers and doing research about salary ranges in your local market for the position you want. And they can give you good drafts of customized cover letters and resumes for applications.

But particularly with the drafts, it has to sound like you. It’s a good way to get started, but you have to make it sound like you. Otherwise, it’s gonna sound like every other AI-generated application.

Gina Riley:

Absolutely. I think that one way to think of this, Mac, is we probably have a lot of people in the audience who are parents who have children who are students, and those students are in school all across the spectrum. And if your student is turning in papers that AI generated, those teachers that are serving your students are seeing a lot of similar, homogenized muck.

You know, they look the same. And the same is true for applications. So we can intellectualize this as an adult when we’re thinking, yeah, students shouldn’t do that. They should put their own spin on it.

The same is true for job seekers. You know, those poor recruiters who are overwhelmed because of the easy apply. And you have to realize that a large percentage of people aren’t necessarily the right fit. They’re having to go through all that. And if it’s very easy to discount the multiples that are coming in that read exactly like the job description.

Mac Prichard:

You need to be different. You can’t sound like everybody else. If you do, you’re just adding to that stack of resumes, and you’re gonna get lost.

Gina Riley:

Mm-hmm. Thank you for that. I’ve got a couple more. These are great. Do you feel like the post on LinkedIn asking for help to find jobs and the open to work banner is a help or a hindrance? So the spin on that is putting the word out, hey, I’m looking for work, plus then the green open to work banner. I think it’s kind of two answers, though.

Mac Prichard:

I think the green open-to-work banners are good. I think when you ask people for help, you should be specific. And so you don’t want to say to someone that you meet on the street, I’m looking for work. If you hear of anything, let me know. And then there’s again, I’m not you because it’s hard to help someone, you’re not quite sure how you can help.

So make it easy for people to help you. And the way you can do that, both online and in person, is to be specific about what it is you’re looking for. So you gotta again, it goes back to what is the job you want and what are the kinds of employers where you want to work.

So my background happens to be in communications, marketing, and government. When I was typically looking for work, I’d say I’m looking for a communications director position with a public agency in local or state government, and I’d also be interested in working for an elected official.

Have you heard of any opportunities like that? Or are there people who work in those worlds that you think I should talk to? That’s something you can say, and you can put on LinkedIn. And you don’t want to get a lot of responses. You want to get the right responses. And the way you get that is by being specific. And when you’re specific, you make it easier for people to help you.

Gina Riley:

Okay, that’s fantastic. Another question: What is a qualified candidate these days? I’ve been rejected without an interview from companies where the job is being posted. and it was virtually identical to the it sounds like the job that they previously held.

And if you don’t mind, Mac, before I kick this over to you, I’ll just say that because I have done executive search, I was a recruiter at Intel for a good period of time. What I can say is qualified is that minimum barrier to entry into the entire interview process.

And there are oftentimes things that recruiters are looking for, you know, that can help distinguish a candidate from the application materials that help them go into the A bucket. I’m gonna call them versus the B bucket, meaning, yeah, they they they’re a fit, but it this other stuff threw it over to the, you know, to getting a phone call first.

So being qualified is just that first barrier to entry. When you’re doing the application process, a lot of times these recruiters will have a couple of screening calls. Do not blow those off. So you need to answer those questions. One, two, is let’s say, as an example, they say, you know, is this the salary range that’s acceptable for you? And you say, no, I need, you know, 50k more.

Well, you’re gonna go in the B bucket or not at all. And AI may have been set up to help screen that out because you have flagged that’s not a fit for you. And they are not able to go to 50K more. So you have to take those screening questions seriously. So that’s what I would say.

So what, so if someone’s qualified Mac and they’re getting, let’s say, instantly rejected, is there anything else you would say about?

Mac Prichard:

Well, I’m sorry people are having that experience. In this economy and in this world, where it’s so easy to apply and learn about opportunities, being qualified is table stakes. So you’re you’re you’re qualified, you send in your application, and there are probably two or three hundred resumes, and I can only guess, Gina, but I would suspect 40, 50, 100 are qualified. So, as you were describing a moment ago, how do recruiters narrow down that stack from whatever the num number might be, 175, 50, to the 10 or 15 that get phone screeners?

And so what you can control as the candidate are two things. One is by having clarity about the job you want, the salary you want to earn, and what it is you offer, which focuses you on the jobs where you’re gonna be most competitive.

And the second thing you can control is that because you have a list of targeted employers, you can build connections that are gonna lead to referrals that are gonna help your qualified application rise to the level of a phone screener.

I would say everybody on this webinar has had the experience of serving on a committee or sorting through a set of resumes or applications, and they’re trying to get whatever the large number is down to 10 or 15, and they get an email or text or call or maybe even an old-fashioned walk down the hallway, and someone says, “You should look at Gina’s resume.”

That’s not going to get you the job, Gina, but it’s going to help your resume get pulled out of the pile, or the file looked at electronically, and that and beyond the seven seconds that most applications receive from recruiters. So that’s something you can control.

Gina Riley:

Thank you. And to honor some of the work that you and I put in, you know, to get ready for this session, I’ve got a couple of other things queued up based on what I’d like to hear from you. And so this is the perfect segue.

Being qualified, those minimum qualifications are the table stakes. I talk and write about that all the time as well. But one thing that you talk about is demonstrating problem-solving capabilities. And that needs to shine through in the resume content, maybe cover letter content, and also in the conversations that we have.

So what would you say about not just resorting to here’s all the things I’ve done, the laundry list, but how are you demonstrating how you solve problems?

Mac Prichard:

Well, I think it starts with understanding the employer’s problems. And you can get that insight through informational interviews before you apply for an opportunity inside an organization. You can also get it in the interview.

One of my favorite questions, I wouldn’t ask it at the top, or perhaps even in a phone screener, but once you’re in that first round, you can say to someone toward the end of the conversation when it’s your turn to ask questions.

If I’m fortunate enough to get this job, what are the three things you’ll want me to tell you I’ve done for you when we’re sitting down to do my annual review a year from now? Cause here’s what happens when you ask that question, Gina. There’s always a pause. The employer is kind of surprised. And then she or he sits back and starts telling you about something that’s not in the job posting.

And then you have the opportunity to reflect on how you’ve solved a similar problem in your career and share that and the lessons you’ve learned, or offer your own ideas if you haven’t tackled that problem before.

And when that happens, you’re getting insights that your competitors don’t have because they’re not asking that question. They’re not asking what’s keeping that manager up at night.

And the manager starts to treat you almost like a teammate as you talk about how to solve this problem. Because in the end, why do people get hired? It’s to solve problems. So position yourself as one.

Gina Riley:

Exactly. I call people a unique business solution provider. You’re there, you’re hired, you’re paid a salary to solve problems. And so when you reverse the thinking, I’ve got to sell myself versus I’m showing up in service to solve a problem, a business need, and I’m gonna make that manager’s life better because of it, it is a mental shift that can be very, very powerful. I see more questions coming in, but I do want to talk about networking.

So the best networkers really aren’t chasing the opportunities. They’re helping figure out where they can create value, you know, for other people. So could you talk a little bit about, you know, what going in service really looks like? Can you expand on what you just said, with you being that problem solver? And then how can we make networking a habit that’s effective?

Mac Prichard:

Well, start I think by rejecting the idea that networking is about going to the function room at the airport Holiday Inn and collecting as many business cards as you can. And nobody wants to do that. And it doesn’t work. So good networkers ask for help with both in their when they’re

both in their jobs and in their job search, but they’re also of service to others.

And you can do that in a number of ways. One is by making networking a lifelong habit, as you said. Examples could include finding and attending professional events in your industry. Whatever your occupation, there’s a local chapter for a professional group. And you don’t have to join the board or be the president.

But there’s usually a happy hour, an annual conference. Make time to attend those events. And if you can, volunteer. It’s a great way of meeting other people and doing it without any expectation of getting anything in return.

Another thing is just to make time for informational interviews if people are doing a job search. And if you can do a task in 15 or 20 minutes, whether it’s having a conversation with someone over coffee about their job search or making an introduction or connection, and you do it again without expecting to get anything in return, you will be amazed at what you get back.

Gina Riley:

Absolutely. And I especially like that it’s one of my top five strategies, which is volunteer leadership. So when you talk about volunteering, yes, we can go volunteer anywhere our heart desires, but if you’re intentional about volunteering within, let’s say, an industry-specific group that is related to what you do, so that you can get seen and heard by other decision-makers in your community, and showcase what you know how to do through that volunteer effort.

That is the way to show your values. So thank you for bringing that up. I’m gonna go back to the QA because we do have quite a few. We won’t get to them all today, folks, and I appreciate all of you. I’ll try to address them in some other way.

So ghosting is a big problem on both ends of the spectrum. I know candidates ghost too, believe it or not, but any recommendations on how to approach recruiters or hiring managers who ghost after what feels like a positive interview, when you know, you’re reaching back out, and then you’re hearing nothing? Do you have any advice? ‘Cause you do talk to employers too.

Mac Prichard:

I do. First don’t leave the interview room or end the Zoom call or the old-fashioned phone call without asking this. What’s the next step in your process, and what’s the best way for me to follow up?

Gina Riley:

Write it down, people. Please write that down. I’m gonna say it again. Take control of your own mental health and just ask what the process is. What is the timing? Thank you, Mac.

Mac Prichard:

And be specific. Okay, well, you know, we’ll get back to you in a couple of weeks. Well, is there a specific date by which you expect to make a decision? You know, keep it professional, but get that date, get the name of the best person you should follow up with, and ask that person what the best way to follow up with you? Do you prefer text? Do you prefer email, a phone call? And so when you get that information, you increase the likelihood that you will get a response because when you follow up, you’re doing exactly what the person told you to do.

Second, be persistent. If you get all that information, you follow up, and you don’t hear anything, you know, I would say, you know, wait five to maybe five business days and just follow up again. And again, I follow the rule of three. If you don’t hear after the third attempt, let it go.

It’s unfortunate, but it’s time to move on. If somebody ghosts you after telling you specifically how they want you to follow up, maybe they are not the right person for you to be working with

Gina Riley:

So Mac, I had Steve Dalton, who wrote the two-hour job search on our series, and one thing that he talks about is, you know, people who can advocate or sponsor you to get you into the system.

There are people who are, and then there’s obligates, people who kind of say they’ll meet with you, but then they don’t, something, and then there’s curmudgeons, and the curmudgeons don’t answer at all.

And so you gotta, as you said, you kind of gotta let it go. All right, I’ve got a couple more questions. How do I avoid scrolling? This isn’t related to networking, I think. How do I avoid scrolling on LinkedIn? I feel I need to network continuously. I feel scrolling can be unproductive. And with that, I do agree. Scrolling is probably unproductive.

So, you know, do you have any insights or inspiration for people to help them kind of get that fire lit to talk with people? I don’t even like the word networking sometimes. I like to think of it as information gathering and relationship building. What would you say?

Mac Prichard:

I agree. I think it’s about connecting with other people, and I think that’s something we all enjoy. I think setting achievable goals is a way of managing your expectations for networking with others during a job search. So you don’t have to meet a hundred people, maybe it’s one or two people a week that you’re gonna connect with, but

But set a specific goal and then track your progress. And know that if you do this, it’s like going to the gym; if you do it regularly over time, it will pay dividends in the form of better health. And it’s the same with your career and your job search.

You don’t have to work 60 hours a week on your job search. It’s probably that I’ve seen different estimates out there, 20 or 30 hours a week, and make time for other things as well. But use that time you do set aside efficiently by setting reasonable goals for the number of people you might meet, and again doing that basic homework, you know, the clarity about your job and your target employers.

Gina Riley:

Okay, thank you. That’s fantastic. There are a couple more things that I want to try to get in, and I want to let this community know a couple of things. Mac and I have an announcement toward the end. I have 10 job opportunities from Skyworks that I’m going to help promote.

And yes, the recording will be available. But if you’re especially in the world of engineering, you may want to stick with us all the way to the end because I have a slide that I’m going to put up and a QR code.

So I just want you to know. So, I want to thank people who have questions in the Q&A. I wish I could get to all of them, but I just can’t with our time restriction. So Mac, let’s shift. What are employers doing to compete for talent?

You know, the hiring side is evolving also, just like right under our feet. So could you give insights that the job seekers on this call probably just don’t have access to, and you do because you’re talking to people?

Mac Prichard:

A number of things come to mind. First, recognize that it’s an employer’s market. And that’s a change from four years ago when candidates were in the driver’s seat. That means that employers are setting the terms of engagement.

And we touched on this in the first half of the conversation, Gina. Many employers are reverting to old, bad hiring habits. Multiple interviews, panels, and presentations. And the reason they’re doing that is in part because of the economy, but also to reduce risk.

So recognize that that’s how the system is functioning now, and make the system work for you by looking for ways to reduce the risks when employers are considering your candidacy. And then we talked about the importance of clarity about the job you want. Employers want to hire people who want to be there.

Not people who are curious or are open to being there. Employers wanna hire problem solvers. So show that this is again something you can control, that you both understand and have ideas for how to solve the employer’s problems.

And third, tap into the power of referrals by networking and building connections that are gonna make a difference when it comes down to the finalists for the position.

Gina Riley:

Thank you. You and I have a couple of things that we had queued up to talk about, and I think that this is a good place to start to converge, which is what candidates misunderstand about how hiring decisions are made.

And then the other thing you and I talked about was demonstrating the problem-solving capability to reduce risk. We’ve talked a lot about reducing the risk as a candidate, but what do candidates misunderstand about what’s happening on the hiring side?

Mac Prichard:

It’s important to remember that for many of us, looking for work is an infrequent event. Some of us might have been with the same employer for twenty or thirty years, and then moved up internally, but we really haven’t been on the open market for a while.

So understanding how hiring works is something you probably don’t pay attention to because you’re satisfied with what you have. And I think that it’s important to understand that. And could you restate the question again, Gina? I just lost my train of thought now.

Gina Riley:

Fine, I know, it happens to me. What do you think that the people in the audience might need to understand about how hiring actually happens that they might not have access to right now?

Mac Prichard:

Well, we talked about the importance of reducing risk in, but I think the number one thing is because many of us don’t look for jobs regularly, so we overstate the importance of qualifications. We think that if I’ve got the right credentials, that will be enough. And it’s not, in part because you’re competing against so many people, and this has always been true that having the credentials alone isn’t enough.

But it’s especially important now because of technology, while 30 years ago a position might have attracted 25 or 50 applications, now it’s likely to attract hundreds. So understand that you can’t rely on your qualifications alone. You gotta have clarity about what you want and where you want to go.

And you gotta invest time in talking to people in those organizations and show that you’re a problem solver.

Gina Riley:

Awesome. Thank you so much. Let me just see if there’s anything burning because I want you to have a chance to promote your event in Portland in May. I think we kind of rounded it out with a lot of the things that we I think we kind of. I think we did a really great job today getting through most of our topics.

You and I could probably talk about this for half a day. So honestly. But what I want to do is I’m going to put in the chat and everyone who’s still with us, I am going to put the link to an event that Mac is going to promote for those who are in Portland or the greater surrounds. So, Mac, you want to share?

Mac Prichard:

Absolutely. We have an event in May. It’s happening in the Pearl District in Portland, Oregon. Our presenting sponsor is Portland State University, and our theme is mentorship. We do four events a year, Gina, at Mac’s List.

Two are focused on job seekers, and two serve employers because we serve both communities. And the reason we do this is to help candidates connect with others, learn and improve their job search skills, and find out about opportunities in the community.

So we have a panel discussion. Actually, you’re gonna be one of our panelists, so thank you for doing that. Yeah, and it’s a chance to for and we have networking both before and after the panel.

And if you’re not able to join us in Portland because you’re somewhere else, we will put an audio recording of the event, the panel discussion, and the questions from the audience on the Find Your Dream Job podcast later in June.

Gina Riley:

That is amazing. I want you to hang out with me. I am gonna do a screen share for our community. There are 133 people hanging in there with us as we start to close out at 10 o’clock PST.

And I imagine there are a lot of people in the audience that may be looking for engineering opportunities or something, you know, adjacent. So I am going to do a screen share of what I have from our friends at Skyworks. So hold tight, everyone, while I go grab that.

Okay, I’m gonna maximize this for everybody. Can you see that, Mac? Okay, wonderful. Okay, so for the folks that are on the line, we have a direct line to one of the Skyworks recruiters. One of our very own Intel alums is the CEO, Phil Brace. And they have been generous enough to help us help you and get these opportunities in front of you.

There is a QR code. I believe that Michael’s probably not on the line right now, but we’ll help get this on our IAN website. We’ll leave it up there for maybe a week or two because we don’t want things to get stale, and we are not a job board, Mac, so we’re not trying to be one.

But, you know, the QR code will take you to the Skyworks job board page. And there are, I think Howard said, a hundred and twelve jobs that are on there. And these are jobs that they are recruiting for.

So we’ve got the hot jobs they put on the slide for me. We’ve got a job in Austin, and these are all the recruiters have said that all the positions are on-site, five days a week. They’ll do relocation if that needs to happen for the position for the qualified candidate.

They’ve got a senior manager in Austin, Texas, for layout design, Cedar Rapids, Iowa, senior manager engineering. Irvine, multiple jobs in Irvine, new technology and product introduction, senior director of Wafer Foundry Engineering, Director of External Sourcing, Supply Chain, Export Compliance Manager, Two in Newbury Park, Materials Planning, Enterprise Systems, and in San Jose, a senior director of a global planning role.

So one thing that we’re really proud to do for our Intel alumni community is to source some of these hot jobs that are active. And so we encourage you to go directly to that company website. We are not the managers or the facilitators of that hiring process. So we can’t help you with that.

Just go directly, and you know if you’re qualified, go through, answer the questions, and do what you need to do. So I hope that is helpful to some of you in the community. And then for those for whom none of these jobs apply, but you know someone sharing is caring.

So share the open role with someone else because that’s how you pay things forward, you know, in today’s market. So what I would say here, and in closing, before we close out with Mac, we also want to share next month’s path to the next Intel Alumni Network session.

I have three guest panelists from the networking organization Open Water, which is a growing networking group. It’s currently something that you don’t need to pay to be a part of, but you do need to apply. It’s generally for the mature professional, not specifically for job seekers, but it’s for people who want to add value to a community of people who are like-minded.

Information sharing, there are webinars, there’s plenty of job seekers in there, but it’s not about a job seeker marketplace. So we’ve got these three people talking about. Networking communities. That’s what we’re really going to be doing there. So that is on May 13th. I think it’s the second Wednesday of May. And it’s right after I’m a guest on the Mac’s List event in Portland, right, Mac?

Fantastic. So, is there anything that you would leave the audience with today as we close out?

Mac Prichard:

Don’t wait to be picked. Too many of us, when we do a job search, we send out the applications, and you need to do that. But if you know the job you want or the organizations that interest you, keep an eye on their career pages, pay attention to their websites, but also step away from the computer and go out and talk to people inside those places.

Because when you do that, you’re gonna learn so much, it’s gonna energize you and make you a more competitive candidate, and you’re gonna stand apart from the other applicants. So don’t wait to be picked, Gina.

Gina Riley:

I love that. Thank you so much. I say don’t wait to get plucked from obscurity. That’s because no one’s gonna come save you. You’ve got to, as the Intel people say, Mac, you’ve got to own your own career and take charge. And part of owning your career is stepping out and really talking with people. So thank you for that.

For folks who would like to follow Mac and his work on LinkedIn, I put in your links multiple times this whole time we’ve been talking, Mac, but if you’re not willing to send a personal connection request, just simply follow Mac.

But if you want to reach out, say I saw you on the webinar, thank you, and all the things. I welcome you to do the same with me. Send me personal connection requests or simply follow. Mac and I generate a lot of content to help job seekers all the time, every day, right? Mac.

Mac Prichard:

You’re more productive than I, and I know I’m on LinkedIn every day too. Yeah.

Gina Riley:

I know you are. I see you. We talk. We talk. So thank you, everyone, for attending. We appreciate you. We appreciate the questions. We like to get to everybody’s questions. We can’t quite do it. James, it’s ten o’clock. Mac and I stuck the landing Intel style right on the button. So, Mac, thank you so much. I’m gonna kick it over to James.

James Cape:

Yeah, hey, thanks, Gina and Mac, for another great session. Like I noted earlier, this is sixteen in the series. So we’ve been working, and we think we’ve come up with something that really adds a lot of value to the membership.

And I can tell you, this is the highest attendance I think we’ve had so far. I think it peaked at 145. But as we wrap up, I just wanted to thank all of you for being part of this community, the Intel Alumni Network community. If you find value in what we are building here, I encourage you to take the next step.

Get involved as a volunteer, consider serving in a leadership role, or maybe apply for a board becoming part of the board. We would love to have you. And if you’re able, and I know times are difficult for many of us, please consider financial support by contributing what you can.

That would be greatly appreciated. And I want to thank you again. Together, we are building something meaningful, and thank you for being part of it. With that, Gina, call this a wrap.

Gina Riley:

We’re calling it a wrap. We’ll see you all next time in May, and for Portlanders, come see Mac and I in the flesh. I’m gonna I’m gonna bring a stack of my books, so you know.

Mac Prichard:

Thank you for listening to Find Your Dream Job.

You can support our show and help others find it by leaving a review and rating on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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This show is produced by Mac’s List.

Susan Thornton-Hough schedules our guests and writes our newsletter. Lisa Kislingbury Anderson manages our social media and creates our transcripts.

Our sound engineer and editor is Megan Hattie Stahl. Our music is by Freddy Trujillo.

This is Mac Prichard. See you next week.