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What Do You Want To Do Next?, with Kathy Oneto

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How do you determine what to do next in your career? That depends on your situation, says Find Your Dream Job guest Kathy Oneto. But if you have time to figure it out, Kathy suggests beginning with self-reflection. Examine peak moments in your work and personal life to determine what’s important to you. Then, Kathy says, ask yourself a series of questions to clarify what you’d like to learn, where your passions lie, and what motivates you. Finally, it’s time to take action. Just thinking about what to do next won’t get you there; you have to take a step in the direction you think you want to go. 

About Our Guest:

Kathy Oneto is a consultant, facilitator, and coach. Kathy also hosts the Sustainable Ambition podcast.

Resources in This Episode:

Transcript

Find Your Dream Job, Episode 501:

What Do You Want To Do Next?, with Kathy Oneto

Airdate: May 14, 2025

Mac Prichard:

This is Find Your Dream Job, the podcast that helps you get hired, have the career you want, and make a difference in life.

I’m your host, Mac Prichard. I’m also the founder of Mac’s List. It’s a job board in the Pacific Northwest that helps you find a fulfilling career.

Every Wednesday, I talk to a different expert about the tools you need to get the work you want.

After listening to Mark Crossfield last week, you know the career change myths you need to ignore.

But how do you choose your new career?

Kathy Oneto is here to talk about how to answer the question: What do you want to do next?

She’s a consultant, facilitator, and coach.

Kathy also hosts the Sustainable Ambition podcast.

And she has a new book coming out, Sustainable Ambition:  How to Prioritize What Matters to Thrive in Life and Work

Kathy joins us from San Francisco.

Well, let’s get going, Kathy. Let’s start with a basic question: why is it important to know what you want to do next in your career?

Kathy Oneto:

Let me answer this by saying what often happens instead, in terms of what do you want to do next. What can often happen is that it’s really easy for us to go on autopilot and kind of lose ourselves in the process of managing our careers. But that can often lead to us ending up in a destination we don’t intend or a place where we might not be happy with where we are when we arrive there.

And so, it’s kind of like we’ve handed over controls to somebody else to make these decisions for us. And two other just quick things that can happen often is that we don’t adjust to changing circumstances. So we may not be paying attention to how are we feeling or are we starting to sense that we are, you know, wanting something new or starting to get dissatisfied or unmotivated with where we are. And we often need to take action on that sooner than we think.

And then, the third thing is that it’s not uncommon for us to hit periods of turbulence and not know how to react. So if we haven’t ever been thinking about in recent times, “Oh, what might be next for me?” we can end up in these situations that are really unsettling and kind of throw people off.

Mac Prichard:

What difference can having a clear direction and answer to that question “what do you want to do next” make when you’re doing a job search?

Kathy Oneto:

Well, knowing what you want to do next allows you to be in the driver’s seat. To really drive your career with better alignment, so you can really end up feeling more satisfied and fulfilled in your career. Rather, just aligning to what shows up in front of you.

You know, oftentimes, people think that their company owns their career and we forget that we own our career, that we really need to be in that driver’s seat. And what’s really powerful about that, when you’re in job search mode, is that it really gives you more conviction and confidence in your search.

And also, when you’re in interviews and as you go to sell yourself for a particular role that you might be really interested in, and so it allows you to tell, I believe, a more cohesive and also compelling story when you’re in those conversations. When you’ve been able to connect the dots, to say, “here’s what I have been doing, and here’s what I want to do next, and here’s why.”

Mac Prichard:

In your experience, Kathy, can employers tell the difference if they’ve got two finalists for a job and one is clear about what the person wants to do next, and the second candidate is uncertain? Is that apparent to hiring managers?

Kathy Oneto:

Personally, I believe it is. I think that we, also, ourselves can sense it and can feel it. And I’ll just admit, Mac, I have found myself in this position, and that’s part of my own learning journey, has been when I’ve been uncertain and I’ve gone into conversations, I am not sitting in a place of confidence and conviction and telling my story in a compelling kind of way. Or in a really convincing way.

And I do believe that those on the other side, those that are hiring, can sense that. And I think you can tell the difference between somebody who is really, you know, deeply interested, has an understanding of where they’re going, how they’re going to be engaged in that role, versus someone who’s not really that convinced about what this role is for them.

Mac Prichard:

And in your experience, how do hiring managers react to that uncertainty? Are they less likely to make an offer to someone who is unclear about what they want to do next, particularly if they’ve got a finalist who is crystal clear that they want to be in that job and at that organization?

Kathy Oneto:

Definitely! If you think about it, hiring managers are trying to deduce risk. And so if you look at any of the data out there in terms of hiring, you know, oftentimes, it’s less than 50%. I’m not going to remember the exact statistic, but it’s less than 50% that employers feel like they got the right match in a role.

And so, what hiring managers are trying to do is make sure that there is that good fit, that who they are hiring is going to work out in that role. And if you have somebody who’s interviewing who’s really confident and understands like “this is what I want to be doing next, and I’m really going to be engaged in this role”, there’s more likelihood they’re going to move forward with that candidate. Because it gives them more confidence, they have more trust in that choice of candidate.

Mac Prichard:

Well, let’s talk about how to get that clarity about what you want to do next. You’ve got 3 steps you take your clients through to answer that question. Let’s walk through them one by one, Kathy.

The first step is self-reflection. Tell us, what do you mean by this, and why is it important?

Kathy Oneto:

Well, I’ll start also by saying, Mac, that what often happens when people are at a stage where they’re like, “I need to make a change and I want to go into job search” it’s not uncommon for most people to be like, “I went to a job board and started looking and just started seeing what appealed to me.” And sometimes, that’s not a bad step in terms of using it to kind of get a sense of “well, what am I curious about now? What is attracting my attention?”

But if you start applying from that state, you’re kind of, you know, you’re not doing it with focus and with intention and with alignment to one’s self. So, self-reflection isn’t the place to end by any means, but it’s a great place to start, in terms of first looking back and exploring what have been your experiences to date.

And a key way that is common to do this is to look at peak moments in your past experiences. This can be at work, it can also be in your personal life. And to consider both positive and negative experiences to really uncover what is motivating and meaningful to you about your work.

And so, you can be exploring and thinking about and unpacking those experiences with keeping in mind things like what do you value in your work? How do you like to contribute and make an impact? What are the strengths you like to use? What is the type of work that you really love to do, and what energizes you?

So in that self-reflection, first looking back and kind of seeing what have my past experiences told me about what I might want next? And then you start to look forward.

And one of the first places I just start with that is this whole idea of just paying attention to what you’re curious about now. It’s a great place to start because oftentimes people say just “I don’t know what I want next,” and that’s okay. We can often be in that state. But I just like to point people to just start to pay attention to what is catching your interest now and what you’re curious about.

Mac Prichard:

How do you recommend organizing this self-reflection? Identifying peak moments; it seems like a clear step, but are you answering a series of questions? Are you making a list? What has worked with your clients to help them go through this exercise and get answers that will help them answer that question about what to do next?

Kathy Oneto:

That’s a great point. I do encourage people to do an exercise where you are, you know, I have a worksheet where people can kind of map this out and take key experiences and really reflect on a series of questions where they’re mapping out their answers. And I kind of just rattled off a few areas that you can explore to kind of unpack these experiences.

And then, I encourage people, Mac, to create a summary document for themselves. You know, I have a blueprint that I offer for people, which may seem really detailed, but it’s like, you know, if you have, you know, what’s important to you all in one place, it’s helpful to have as a reference. Both in terms of starting to then think about well what might be next, what might be paths that interest me, but this is, this becomes your blueprint for also referring back.

And you know, oftentimes when we’re in a job search, we forget that we are part of the equation. We’re kind of like, “Ugh, I just want a job,” but it’s also like, well, does that job fit you? And does that organization fit you?

And so, what’s helpful about keeping track of this and documenting it and summarizing it for oneself is it becomes your reference tool to evaluate for yourself: is this job a good fit for me? And that’s really what you’re looking for, is, I’ll probably talk about it later, is really looking for that match quality between what you’re looking for, what you want next, and what is being offered by the organization in this role.

Mac Prichard:

Well, hold that thought, I want to talk more about the blueprint and how to put it together and use it. So, stay with us, we’re gonna take a break.

When we come back, Kathy Oneto will continue to share her advice on how to answer the question: What do you want to do next?

We’re back in the Mac’s List studio. I’m talking with Kathy Oneto.

She’s a consultant, facilitator, and coach.

Kathy also hosts the Sustainable Ambition podcast.

And she has a new book coming out, Sustainable Ambition:  How to Prioritize What Matters to Thrive in Life and Work

Kathy joins us from San Francisco.

Now, Kathy, before the break, we were talking about how to answer the question: What do you want to do next?

And we talked about the benefits job-seekers enjoy, particularly in conversations with hiring managers, when they have the answer to that question. And we started walking through three steps you encourage your clients to take to get clear about what they want to do, either in their next job or perhaps in a new career.

The first step you shared with us was self-reflection. And then we started to talk about blueprints; this is the second step that you encourage job-seekers to take.

So you’ve done the self-reflection. You’ve thought about those peak moments, your strengths, your values, and you’ve done the analysis, and you’ve created a document. You call it a blueprint. Walk us through what that blueprint looks like, how to put it together, and how it can help someone.

Kathy Oneto:

Sure. Well, building on that self-reflection, there’s three core questions that I like to invite people to explore to create their blueprint and start to identify paths that might be possible for them.

So the first question is: what will be satisfying next?

The second is: What’s my next stretch?

And the third is: what do I want to strive for next?

So let me just tell you a little bit about each of those. The “what will be satisfying next?” starts to build on some of that early self-reflection. It again goes back to that: what are you curious to explore next? But really, it’s also building on when you think about that self-reflection and what that looking back might have told you, I invite people to think about this simple idea of what’s trending up for you and what’s trending down?

And so you might think about, in those trending up things, like, what do you want to continue doing? What are you curious about next? What might you want to explore and is catching your interest?

And trending down might be what are things that you’re kind of done with? That you’re kind of like, “hey, I’m not as interested in this component anymore.” And I mentioned this earlier, really, what we’re looking for when we’re looking for something new is what’s called match quality. Which is actually an economic term which is about finding the right fit with one’s skills, experiences, interests, and values. And matching that with the requirements and characteristics of a job or organization.

And oftentimes, I think we only think about one side of that equation. We think, oh, what am I passionate about, or oh, what does the market kind of need, and we’re not looking for that match quality. And research really shows, not surprisingly, when we have that match quality, we have higher satisfaction, more motivation, which leads to more success.

In terms of what’s my next stretch, this is really about you know, how do you want to grow next? What do you want to learn? If we really want our careers to be regenerative and not restrictive, we should be continuing to learn. And I know, you know, continuous learning, of course, has been an important topic over many decades now, but research also shows that it’s better to have broader training and keep multiple paths open when we’re making transitions at career inflection points.

And then, so, I don’t go too long here, Mac, really briefly – what do I want to strive for next? You know, that’s really about kind of what is your ambition? What is your next aspiration? What’s the vision that you might want to aspire to next in your work? What’s your next call to adventure?

So those are the three questions that, after self-reflection, I invite people to go a little bit deeper into.

Mac Prichard:

Walk us through how you do this exactly, and how much time does it take? And what do you have in the end?

Are you simply sitting down at a desk and writing out your answers to these questions and then turning it into a one-page document, or a multi-page strategic plan? What do you encourage your clients to do?

Kathy Oneto:

Yeah, I mean, I offer a one-page regenerative career canvas where people can capture these responses. But this is the type of thing, it’s, I think that it can be a combination of things, Mac. Which is like, sometimes we can boil the ocean and think it needs to be really complex, and really, even just giving ourselves space for one hour to reflect on these questions can help us uncover new insights.

But the other thing is, sometimes by priming ourselves around these questions, it allows our brain to start thinking about these things when we’re perhaps out on a walk or we’re in the shower. You know, we can start priming our brains to think about these questions. And oftentimes, we aren’t taught to think about our careers in this way. And so, by even just priming ourselves to think about these questions, insights might come up for us later.

So I really think it’s an individual thing, in terms of how long this can take or what the process can look like. But ultimately, what you want to get to is from these responses, is to start to then ideate on what are possible paths that I might take next? What are roles that I might want to explore? And what might be next?

So that’s what this reflection, going from the self-reflection to starting to create this blueprint, the ultimate output should be, okay, what are potential paths that I might want to explore?

Mac Prichard:

Well, let’s talk about that because your third step is to explore your options.

So you’ve done the self-reflection. You’ve created the blueprint. Now you’re ready to move ahead and consider the directions you might take. How do you recommend doing this exactly, Kathy?

Kathy Oneto:

So, I believe in what Herminia Ibarra champions in her book, “Working Identity”, where she really encourages all of us to step into action, to try to explore these options. And she really says, you can’t act your way, you need to act your way into a new way of thinking and being. Like, you cannot discover yourself just by introspection.

So I do believe the self-reflection and thinking about this personally is very important. But I encourage people to not stop there. And so to your question, Mac, in terms of how do you actually go start to test these things? You can test them in a lot of different ways.

One way can just be start to listen to podcasts or read articles on a particular topic, see what your interest level is, and whether or not there’s energy there. Take a class on something that could be free, there are a lot of free classes out there. That could be a free class, a paid class. Do informational interviews, of course, and ask people what their experiences are in those roles. Attend a talk on a topic.

So there are a lot of different ways to kind of test things out and to get a sense of “Hmm, does this path seem right to me or does another path seem like the next step?”

Mac Prichard:

And when you talk about paths, Kathy, are you talking about a specific job, a field, or an organization, all of those things? Or something else?

Kathy Oneto:

I think it can be all of those things, Mac. I think it could be, you know, am I gonna stay in the same industry, but I want to take a different role? Is it that I want to switch industries but stay in a similar role? Is it that I’m gonna mix it up and combine both of those? So it could be different fields.

So it could also just be, hey, I’m staying in the same place but I want to explore like what is it like to move up to the next level and do I feel like I’m ready for that or that I’m interested in that, you know, next step on the ladder, if you will.

Mac Prichard:

Often, our listeners can fall into one of two groups. They could be a person who is in a position now and they’re ready to leave. There’s no urgency, but sometimes in the next 3, 6 months or so, they’d like to make a change.

And then, there’s another group of people who need a job now because they’ve got bills to pay. Perhaps they’ve had a layoff, or they’re in a situation where they do need to make an immediate change.

With those two groups in mind, Kathy, how would you recommend applying the three steps you’ve just outlined so that people could make the most of the ideas you’re sharing here?

Kathy Oneto:

Yeah, I mean, I think that they can apply to either situation. Certainly, if somebody is in this space where they have, they’re making a more significant change and they have, you know, time like 6-12 months, like you’re saying, there’s more runway, right, for that exploration, like you’re saying, Mac.

I still think that having some sense of like, okay, even if I got laid off or it’s a more immediate thing where I really need to get a job, still understanding what is going to be satisfying to you? How do you want to grow next? What’s your next aspiration? Having answers to those questions, as well as, kind of again, getting that conviction about why you’re interested in a particular role next, can really make you a stronger candidate when you go into those conversations.

And so, I believe that spending a little bit of time to really get clear on this, the other point of doing this exercise is really finding your motivation and your energy behind what you want to do. I strongly believe that you know when we can find our own motivation, that’s where sustainable success resides. And we can find more fulfillment, and joy, and satisfaction in our work when we find that connection. And some of the things I’ve already talked about can kind of help point people there.

Mac Prichard:

Well, it’s been a terrific conversation. Tell us, Kathy, what’s next for you?

Kathy Oneto:

Well, as you’ve alluded to, Mac, I have a book coming out later in 2025, in June. And so you’ve mentioned the title, “Sustainable Ambition: How to Prioritize What Matters to Thrive in Life and Work.”

And I’m also still focused on my own podcast, as you know, which is called The Sustainable Ambition Podcast.

Mac Prichard:

Terrific. Well, I know listeners can learn more about you and your work, both as well your book and your podcast, by visiting your website sustainableambition.com. And you also invite listeners to connect with her on LinkedIn. When you do reach out to Kathy there, please, I hope you’ll mention that you heard her on Find Your Dream Job.

Kathy, given all the useful tips you’ve shared today, what’s the ONE thing you want a listener to remember about how to answer the question: What do you want to do next?

Kathy Oneto:

Oftentimes, we don’t start thinking about this question sooner than we need to. So what I would encourage people to do is to pay attention to what is happening for them around their work, and also encourage you to always be learning, always be experimenting, and always be taking what I call “good risk”, things that align with what matters to you.

Mac Prichard:

Next week, our guest will be Leila Singh.

She’s a leadership, career development, and mindset coach.

Leila helps you elevate your career, overcome your limitations, and learn from other successful leaders.

She also hosts the weekly podcast, Life Leadership.

You apply for a job.

You have the experience and the skills the employer wants.

But you don’t get an offer.

Why didn’t the hiring manager choose you?

Join us next Wednesday when Leila Singh and I talk about three ways to make yourself the obvious choice.

Until next time, thanks for letting us help you find your dream job.

This show is produced by Mac’s List.

Susan Thornton-Hough schedules our guests and writes our newsletter. Lisa Kislingbury Anderson manages our social media.

Our sound engineer and editor is Matt Fiorillo. Dawn Mole creates our transcripts. And our music is by Freddy Trujillo.

This is Mac Prichard. See you next week.