The Right Way to Resign from Your Job, with Joseph Liu

Listen On:

Transcript

Mac Prichard:

Hi, this is Mac from Mac’s List. Before we start the show, I want to let you know about my new book, Land Your Dream Job Anywhere. I’ve been helping job seekers find meaningful, well-paying work since 2001, and now I’ve put all my best advice into one easy-to-use guide. My book shows you how to make your resume stand out in a stack of applications, where you can find the hidden jobs that never get posted, and what you need to do to ace your next job interview. Get the first chapter now for free. Visit MacsList.org/anywhere.

This is Find Your Dream Job; the podcast that helps you get hired, have the career you want, and make a difference in life. I’m Mac Prichard, your host and publisher of Mac’s List. I’m joined by my co-hosts, Ben Forstag and Jessica Black from the Mac’s List team, and our new digital marketing manager, Becky Thomas.

This week we’re talking about the right way to resign from your job.

No job lasts forever; one day we all walk out our employer’s door for the last time. Our guest expert this week is Joseph Liu. He says you need to think carefully about how you manage your departure. The way you leave a job can affect how people remember you for years to come. Joseph and I talk later in the show.

The conventional wisdom says you should never quit a job without another one lined up. Ben Forstag has found a blog post that offers 5 reasons why you may want to rethink that rule. He tells us more in a moment.

What’s the best way to work with a staffing agency? Especially if you hope an assignment might  lead to a job? That’s our listener question of the week. It comes from listener Suzanne Van Amburgh in Portland, Oregon. Jessica Black offers her advice shortly.

First, as always, let’s check in with the Mac’s List team, and I want to welcome for the first time to the Mac’s List studio, Becky Thomas.

Becky Thomas:

Hello.

Mac Prichard:

Welcome to the podcast, Becky.

Becky Thomas:

Thank you.

Mac Prichard:

It’s a pleasure to have you here.

Becky Thomas:

I’m really excited to be here.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah terrific, well I know you’re going to be listening in this week and next and then eventually taking over the listener question feature that Jessica’s been staffing for the last couple of months.

Becky Thomas:

Yeah, I’m really excited to hear from our listeners and dig into this whole job search topic and hear some stories.

Mac Prichard:

Good. Well people can find out more about you and your past work by visiting our blog, so looking forward to your contributions to the show.

Becky Thomas:

Thanks,  Mac.

Mac Prichard:

Okay. So let me turn back to you, Ben and Jessica. Our topic this week is resigning from jobs. How have you two approached quitting your jobs in the past? What are some of your best tips?

Jessica Black:

Best tips are always to give notice and to give somebody a heads up, and just set the organization up for success, I think. Nobody wants to be left in the lurch and so I think that keeping in the relationship that you’ve developed throughout the years, or several months even, that you’ve been with that employer. I think it’s just really important to end on a good high note and be able to keep that relationship strong and enter your new organization feeling really good about how you left things.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah, I like that advice a lot, Jessica, because if we stay in our field or even our community, chances are we’re going to run across our co-workers and our former managers at some point down the road.

Jessica Black:

Absolutely.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah, what about you Ben?

Ben Forstag:

Well, I’ve had two cases in which I’ve resigned from a job and the first one was my last job in Washington, DC, where I told my boss six months ahead of time that I was leaving. And I’d been there for a long time and I had a really good relationship with her and she knew that at some point I would be moving on. But I just really wanted to set the organization up in a good place and make sure that all the work that I had, which was sort of long term in nature, was handled and transitioned well. And it was probably too early to tell my boss. One of the things they asked me to do right away was find a replacement for myself and I found someone on staff and kind of nurtured her to take my job and after three months they just stopped having things for me to do. So, it was pretty boring. I was kind of just sitting around twiddling my thumbs, not sure what I was doing there anymore.

The other time I resigned from a job, was the flip side. I gave too little time. Basically I told them, “My last day is on Friday.” And I told them this on Monday. And that was just a very unique situation where I felt the need to get out as soon as possible. I floated some other ideas there to provide some support services if they needed it. In that case I was willing to continue working as a consultant if they wanted that, but that I could no longer come to the office and work there.

So, I don’t think either of those are ideal situations. I think the sweet spot is between two weeks and one month’s notice.

Mac Prichard:

I agree.  I think one exception to that, where it does make sense to give a longer notice, if you’re going, say, to graduate school, or you’re starting some new commitment. That might be three to six weeks in advance. But again, the challenge there, and you touched on it, Ben, is there’s gotta be a role for you, particularly after your replacement arrives or takes your position.

Ben Forstag:

Definitely. Now Mac, can I ask a question?

Mac Prichard:

Sure.

Ben Forstag:

Is it appropriate for someone who just started to talk about how they resigned from jobs in the past?

Mac Prichard:

Wanna jump in here, Becky?

Becky Thomas:

Yeah, I think that you guys are right on that you need to give enough time but not too much. Typically, I’ve offered between two and three weeks at past jobs that I have left. It’s pretty much worked out that way. I haven’t had to hire or train a replacement, but sort of just getting things ready to go for your replacement at that role, and make sure that they’re prepared for living without you.

Mac Prichard:

And managers, they always appreciate that…people doing that preparation so that that transition is as smooth as possible. And I know Joseph and I will talk about that later in the show.

Well let’s turn to you, Ben, because you’re out there every week searching the nooks and crannies of the internet looking for books, tools, and websites, people can use in a job search or a career. What have you uncovered for us this week?

Ben Forstag:

This week I want to talk about a blog post that I found from Forbes.com. It’s called Five Good Reasons To Quit Without Having Another Job. And this blog post actually comes from Liz Ryan, who was a guest on our show about eight weeks ago.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah, she has a new book out, The Human Workplace, I think. It’s quite good.

Ben Forstag:

The reason I brought this up is because, as you mentioned in the introduction, there’s often this best practice of you don’t quit a job until you have another one lined up. And I totally get the wisdom in that, and that’s certainly how I’ve tried to operate in my career. But there are times when you can’t do that for one reason or another. And this is a list of the five situations in which you might think about quitting a job without having that bonus, or that extra salary lined up for the future.

I’m not gonna go into all the details here. I’ll just tell you kind of the big bullet points here.

One is safety; obviously, if you’re feeling endangered in your workplace, just quit and figure out the money side later.

The other is health; some people work themselves sick or the workplace is literally making them sick. That’s another scenario where you just want to quit and you’ll figure out what’s next later on.

Third point she comes up with is lifeline. And what she means is here is that you’ve found something that might not be a full time replacement job but it’s enough to get you by until you find something else. So if you’ve found a lifeline, whether it’s a consulting gig, or part time job, or piecemeal work or whatever that is, and you’re really unhappy with your job, just quit your full time job and take this piecemeal work. Cover your expenses and then find something else later.

Another situation that I think a lot of people find themselves in is her fourth point, which is; you’re ready to finish but you’re not ready to start…where you know that you don’t want to be doing this anymore but you don’t know what you want to be doing. Sometimes you just need to create the space in your life and in your day and your career to explore that a little bit more.

Which feeds into her last point, which is inertia, and this is one I know a lot about. I’ve had jobs where I was unhappy with my job on an ongoing basis but because I had a job and it was paying me a nice paycheck I just couldn’t bring myself to really get serious about finding anything else that I wanted more, and I got kind of apathetic about the job search. And so I think that it’s a really good argument. That if you really want to find a new job, you should consider quitting the job you’ve got because nothing lights a fire under your butt like unemployment. Not to put too blunt a term on it, but…

The other thought I had when I was reading through this is, I talk to a lot of job seekers who tell me some variation of this story, which is, “I got laid off, I got fired from my job and I was upset about it, but in retrospect I realized it was one of the best things that ever happened to my career because I finally got out of a job that I wasn’t happy at and it forced me to go find something else that I liked more.” And I appreciate that sentiment. I think that happens to a lot of people.

I guess my point to folks would be, you don’t need to wait to get fired for that moment to happen. Like, if you really do want to get some inspiration and create some urgency in your job search, you can make that affirmative decision to quit a job ahead of time and gamble on yourself and have some faith that you’ll be able to put something together in the near future.

Mac Prichard:

I have seen a number of people do that successfully over the years, and I think one of the big reasons that they were successful is because they had a clearer idea what they wanted to do next. And even if they didn’t have something lined up, they knew where to look. And I think because of that, opportunities just seemed to fall into their lap. It wasn’t magic, it was the result of clear goal setting and deliberate searching.

Ben Forstag:

Yeah, I know. I don’t think quitting your job is the magic bullet to finding a job easily, but I think it does create a lot of space, both in your schedule and in your head and elsewhere, where you can start thinking clearly. Instead of focusing on what’s your deliverable next week to your boss, you can start thinking about, “What do I really want to be doing?” Instead of scheduling four hours to write emails, you can schedule time to meet with other folks and do the kinds of things that we know leads to a productive job search.

Mac Prichard:

Great. Well thank you, Ben, and if you have a suggestion for Ben, please write him, and we may share your idea on the show. Ben’s address is easy to remember, it’s (ben@macslist.org).

Now let’s turn to you, our listeners, and Jessica Black is here to answer one of your questions. Jessica, what’s in the Mac’s List mailbag this week?

Jessica Black:

Yeah, this week, Mac, we have a question from Suzanne Van Amburgh from Portland. And her question is about how best to use staffing agencies. So let’s take a listen, she explains exactly what her predicament is here.

Suzanne Van Amburgh:

“Suzanne Van Amburgh, from Portland, Oregon. Many of the large companies, locally, use a particular staffing agency. It’s like their go-to choice to find contract workers or a temp. But it’s very hard to uncover which staffing agencies those organizations go to. So for example, if I know I want to try to get in at Nike, is there a particular staffing agency I should get my application and resume into? I just recently learned that Cambia uses Robert Half, so those kinds of connections would be really helpful to be able to make, and mine that information because there’s so many staffing agencies and so many large organizations.”

Jessica Black:

Thank you Suzanne, that was such a great question about which staffing agencies flow into which large companies. I honestly don’t have that magical answer for you of which staffing agencies are the right ones, but I really do commend you. I think using staffing agencies in general is a really great route for finding employment.  I think that you’re doing it the right way in that respect. And also I think if you know an organization you want to work in directly, going through those channels, not necessarily through a staffing agency but through connections you’ve made or building connections, to be able to meet people that are in that organization already, to be able to get your resume at the top of the list at that organization. If you do still really want to go through the staffing agency route, maybe just start meeting with some staffing agencies and asking them those direct questions, and kind of doing the investigation yourself that way. Because, as you said, there’s particular ones that work with particular brands or organizations. Having some of those informational interviews with staffing agencies about what kind of value can you get from each of those specific agencies, I think would be a good route to take. Mac, Ben, what do you guys think?

Ben Forstag:

So yeah, I think you’re right. I know you’re right, that organizations use different staffing agencies, and it’s often true that a big organization like Nike might use several different staffing agencies, depending on what kind of workers they’re looking for. That’s why you need to research staffing agencies the same way you would research an employer. And it’s worth your while to find a list of all the staffing agencies in your town and do your research on them. Find out what their niche is, find out the industry they work in, and often times they’ll have a brag board on their website of the clients they have. Certainly, any staffing agency in Portland that does work with Nike is more than happy to brag about the fact that they do work with Nike. It’s a big employer in town.

The other thing you can do is, if you schedule informational interviews with folks who work for the employer, you might ask, “How does your organization find talent? What workers do they work through? What talent agency should I be talking with?” And they’ll give you a good idea. In general though, I’d go back to this: you need to research your staffing agency options. Because I think you’ll find that there are a lot of options but the one that’s best for you is the one that most closely aligns with what you want to be doing and what industry you’re trying to reach out to, and some of the prospective clients you’d like to work for.

Mac Pichard:

Yeah, I really liked your advice, Jessica, about finding the agencies that are working with the company that interests a person. In this case, for Susanne, it’s Nike in Portland, but it could be any employer in any city. In addition to the suggestions that Ben made, I’m a big fan of looking at the book of lists that are published by business journals in twenty-six cities around the country, and it’s a national chain of business newspapers. Each of them has a book of different organizations and employers, and their staffing agencies are a part of that. It lists their biggest clients and again, you don’t have to buy the book, it’s often available at libraries but even if you don’t look at the book of lists, or there isn’t one in your community, knowing who the staffing agencies are in town, and checking out their websites, I think you’re right Ben, it’s gonna be on their brag board online.

Ben Forstag:

The other challenge with this is often times when you find a job listing from an employment agency or a staffing agency, it doesn’t actually list the company that’s doing the hire, or that they’re hiring for, and there’s a couple reasons why that’s the case. But it can be difficult if you’re trying to do targeted applications into a recruiter; to get placed in a specific organization and that’s why I think you should just cut through the middleman and just go talk to the recruiter and tell them. Be very clear, “I’m looking for a job at x, are there any opportunities there that I’d be a good fit for?”

Mac Prichard:

Great, well thank you both, and if you have a question for Jessica, please send her an email. Her email address is easy to remember, it’s jessica@macslist.org. Or call our listener line, like Susanne did. That number is area code 716-JOB-TALK. That’s 716-562-8255. If we use your question on the show, we’ll send you a copy of our new book, Land Your Dream Job Anywhere.  We’ll be dropping Susanne’s copy in the mail this week.

We’ll be back in just a moment, and when we return, I’ll talk with this week’s guest, Joseph Liu about how to resign the right way when you quit your job.

Most people struggle with job hunting. The reason is simple; most of us learn the nuts and bolts of looking for work by trial and error. That’s why I produce this podcast; to help you master the skills you need to find a great job. It’s also why I wrote my new book, Land Your Dream Job Anywhere. For fifteen years at Mac’s List, I’ve helped people in Portland, Oregon, find meaningful, well paying, and rewarding jobs that they love. Now I’ve put all of my job hunting secrets in one book that can help you no matter where you live.

You’ll learn how to get clear about your career goals, find hidden jobs that never get posted, and ace your next job interview. For more information, and to download the first chapter for free, visit Mac’sList.org/anywhere.

Now let’s turn to this week’s guest expert, Joseph Liu.

Joseph Liu is a career consultant, keynote speaker, columnist, and host of the Career Relaunch podcast (https://josephpliu.com/podcast/). He believes you must be willing to make a brave leap to create positive changes in your career. Tapping his previous experience as a global marketer, Joseph has helped hundreds of professionals and business owners build and relaunch their personal brands to pursue more meaningful work. He joins us today from London.

Joseph, thanks for being on the show.

Joseph Liu:

Hey Mac, great to be here.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah, it’s a pleasure to have you. Our topic this week, Joseph, is how to resign from a job the right way. And we’re all gonna change jobs a number of times in our careers but it can be a tricky process. Why do you think people need to plan carefully when resigning from a job?

Joseph Liu:

Well, I think there’s a couple reasons for that, Mac. Number one, I think that the moment people are resigning from their jobs is typically a time when a lot of transition is going on in their lives. So not only professionally, but sometimes when people are switching jobs they’ve also got a lot of personal upheaval or they’re having to relocate, so there’s a lot of internal, emotional transition that’s happening. Which means that sometimes you’re not exactly at your very best, or you might be a bit distracted from the task at hand, which in this case is resigning your job.

I think the second reason why it’s kind of tricky is because people are normally on their way out the door and when you’re on your way out the door after you’ve resigned, you aren’t always thinking that you have any more skin in the game. So what can happen sometimes is people start to check out and they leave a pretty bad legacy behind.  I think it’s really important to make sure you have this planned out, because it really is going to be the final thing that people remember about you…both your colleagues and also your manager.

So it’s really useful to think about doing it the right way so that you can make sure you don’t burn any bridges and ideally make a really positive impression on your way out the door.

Mac Prichard:

It is striking isn’t it, Joseph, how you can be at an organization for three, five, even ten years and do great things, but sometimes what people remember is your last two or three months before you left.

Joseph Liu:

Definitely. And I actually think you can tell a lot about somebody when they no longer have skin in the game, because you know that the way they’re behaving is who they are, and what they believe in in terms of their work approach, and their work philosophy. So it can be very revealing, how people exit, and you can tell a lot about somebody’s character after they gotten done resigning.

Mac Prichard:

Well let’s talk about how people should prepare for that transition. What steps should someone take when they’ve decided to accept an offer from somewhere else? What should they do next?

Joseph Liu:

I like to think of the resignation process falling into three broad steps. So, we can go through these one at a time if you want here.

Number one is the actual preparation to resign; so what you’re doing before you share your resignation with your manager.

And the second part is where you share your resignation.

And the final part is managing your actual departure, between when you have shared your resignation and when you actually leave the company.

So, I think when it comes to actually preparing to resign there’s a few things to keep in mind.

Number one is to make sure that you keep this to yourself for the time being. The first person who should ever know about this is going to be your direct line manager when you share the news. But in the meantime, before you actually share your resignation, you want to make sure that you try to keep this to yourself. The last thing you want to do is have the news trickle up to your manager somehow and it not come straight from you.

The second thing that I recommend to clients is just to make sure that you have invested the time to prepare some sort of a transition file. And this transition file is something that you can hand to your manager once you put in our resignation, but more importantly it can also be used by the person who’s going to be coming in after you, the person who is your successor. And so the transition file, everybody’s got their own way of doing this, but I always suggest you try to include your project statuses, some key issues that might relate to those projects, any politics that people might need to be aware of who are going to be filling your shoes later, relationships, and any key stakeholders that you think someone in your role should know about. So I think that that transition file is a way of demonstrating that you have really put some time into putting the organization first and making sure that you’re aware that your job is to insure a seamless transition.

And then the final thing I’d recommend before you share the news is making sure you take some time to solidify some relationships. Not only on your own team but also your cross functionals, because you just never know how things are going to transpire after you put in your resignation. So there are cases where you will be escorted out the door, although that doesn’t always happen. But if that’s the case, you want to spend right now, this time before you share the resignation, solidifying some relationships.

Mac Prichard:

Well, let’s talk about relationships; many of us, all of us, have good colleagues in the workplace, who may be mentors or just trusted advisors. I want to go back to a point you made earlier, that you shouldn’t tell anybody first except your line supervisor. Why shouldn’t you share this news or get input from a trusted colleague in the workplace?

Joseph Liu:

Well, there’s a little bit of a risk behind that, Mac. It’s not that it’s not a good idea to get advice on how best to deliver the news. I think all of us welcome advice, especially from people who know the organization. I guess the complication here is that you’re putting that person in a bit of a strange position because they now know that you’re planning on resigning, and you’ve now put them in a position where they need to keep that confidential, before you share with your manager, and I think that’s a tough place to put somebody in.

So the number one problem with that is you’re putting that person in a tough position.

And I think the second reason is really because your manager is probably going to have preferences about how this news is shared on the team. And he or she may not want that news getting out until a certain set of tasks, or a sequence of activities takes place. Or there’s something in the organization that they may know about that’s sensitive in terms of the the timing of this, and they may want to control the timing or who they share it with, before it actually gets spread around the organization.

So for me personally, I think there’s a little bit of risk involved in that. And you might ultimately end up putting yourself in a somewhat awkward position with your manager if he or she happens to hear about this before you share it with them.

Mac Prichard:

I want to talk about how you deliver that news to the hiring manager, but first I want to give you a shoutout, Joseph, for your suggestion about recording what remains to be done before, or after you leave, because as a manager myself I am just so grateful when people do that without being prompted. Because when they do walk out the door, there’s so much knowledge and skill that they’re taking with them and people transition out of positions all the time, but to be able to record that knowledge before they leave is invaluable to the organization.

Joseph Liu:

Yeah, definitely, I mean, I spent about ten years myself working in the corporate world before doing the work I do now, and I’ve definitely seen it all. You see people who just completely checkout and they head out the door. And you see people who go above and beyond the call of duty to insure a smooth transition for the next person, and ultimately making your life as a manager a lot easier.  I can remember every single direct report who ever did that and I can also remember the people who didn’t do that. So yeah, this really does leave a lasting impression on people.

Mac Prichard:

So you’re ready to tell your manager the news; how do you do that, Joseph? Should you send an email? Should you ask for a meeting? What’s the best practice?

Joseph Liu:

The best practice here is to actually do this in person. First of all, just acknowledge that this is a tricky situation and there’s going to be a lot of emotions involved in this. I can tell you when I’ve had to resign in the past, it’s tough, because I always generally have a pretty good relationship with my manager, and it’s tough to walk away from a company that’s invested time in you and you’ve invested time in them. So I think the first thing to acknowledge is that this is a very, delicate, emotionally charged situation.  I actually think because of that it’s really important to do this in person; not over the phone, not over email, if you can avoid it. So doing it in person, I think, is appropriate for the seriousness and the importance of this type of information that you’re sharing with the manager.

I think once you set up that time, and it can be as simple as saying you want to have a catch up, I would probably make it a separate meeting from your regular one-on-ones, so I would carve off some time to do this with your manager separately. And you just inform your manager that you’re resigning and you share this with your desired timing. And also when you’re doing this, I generally recommend to focus on your positive future plans and avoid saying anything negative, even if you do think you’ve got some negative things to say about the company. To just really not use this time to vent any frustration, air any grievances; this is not the moment to do that. I think this is really the moment to focus on your future planning and be very forward looking. And this is also a great opportunity to share that transition file. So bring it with you to the meeting and let them know that you have taken the initiative to already start to plan things out to insure a smooth transition. And those are the basics on that.

Mac Prichard:

What do you do, Joseph, if your supervisor says, “I want you to think about this. Give me twenty-four, or forty-eight hours to make a counter offer.” ?

Joseph Liu:

Okay, so I’m glad you mentioned that Mac, because this is a pretty common situation. I work with a lot of clients who are navigating transition and I would say that this probably does come up nine out of ten times, when there’s some kind of a counter offer that comes your way. I always suggest to clients to make sure that you wait until you’ve already accepted your other offer before you share this resignation news with your manager. And the reason for doing that is both for yourself, so that you have certainty on where you’re headed, and also so you can avoid this situation of the counter-offer coming up. I generally think it’s not a good idea to accept counter offers, so I generally recommend that you decline a counteroffer if it comes your way.

There’s a couple reasons for that. Number one is because, in my mind, there’s really no good outcome here. Let’s say you accept that counter offer; the risk here is that you can be perceived as someone who was maybe using this other offer as a bargaining chip to get something out of the company. And if you were to take that, it also signals that you getting that incremental…whatever it is, salary, benefit, additional time off… that that incremental offer that your manager is giving you is kind of the only thing keeping you at the company, and so that’s not a great situation. If you were to accept the counteroffer, it also just kind of leaves a bit of a bad taste in people’s mouths.

If you were to stay on after you accept the counteroffer, people then know that you have already set your sights on departing the company. That’s gonna be something that your manager is always aware of and in the end, it could actually adversely affect your career progression, your trajectory at the company. I generally think it’s not a good idea to accept the counter offer.

Mac Prichard:

What about timing, Joseph? Do you recommend people give two weeks notice, four weeks notice? And finally, some employers may say, when you give notice, “Well thank you. We wish you well. We appreciate everything you’ve done, and you can leave today.” What are your thoughts about timing, and how should people react if an employer says, “Let’s just bring it to a close today?

Joseph Liu:

Well, let’s take that last one first, then Mac. I think that, first of all, you should be prepared for a situation where they say, “Okay, it’s been great, you can head out the door today.” That can happen, giving you the option to leave. There could also be a situation where you are pretty much told or mandated to leave, and this can come up if you’re heading to a competitor for example, or if you’re working on a project where there’s a lot of confidentiality issues. You should be prepared when you announce this resignation, for the scenario where you go out the door that day.

Or you lose your access to your files that day, which kind of goes back into preparation. We didn’t touch on this point, but you want to be sure that you’ve taken care of all the admin that you need to, before you do this. But to get back to your point, I think the overall principle, when it comes to resigning is to try to do it so that the timing is such where you give your manager enough time to plan out a transition and that can be two weeks, it can be a month. In the UK, it’s not unusual for you to have a three month notice period.

You definitely need to serve out whatever your legal or mandate period is in your work contract but beyond that, there’s nothing to say that you can’t stay longer, and help the manager tie up an additional few loose ends. In the past, my general approach to this has been to have my ideal in mind but to let the manager know, “Hey, if you need me for an extra x number of weeks, I’m happy to do that, if it helps to insure a smooth transition for you.” Managers will generally be very welcoming of you doing that and it will generally leave people with a very positive impression of you.

So,  it needs to work for you, but at the same time, I think it can go a really long way if you’re willing to go the extra mile and spend a little bit of extra time at the company.

Mac Prichard:

Well, I think the main message here is to think about the legacy you want to leave, and again, how you manage this process as you go out the door, what a big difference it makes in creating that legacy.

Joseph Liu:

Absolutely. I always tell people you should be prepared to give your job a hundred percent, no more, no less, during whatever notice period you’re gonna serve out. And that’s really the best practice when it comes to resigning in the right way.

Mac Prichard:

Well thank you, Joseph. Now tell us, what’s coming up next for you?

Joseph Liu:

Well, a couple things. First of all, I guess if your listeners are interested in learning a little bit more about how to resign the right way, I do have a blog post and a worksheet that outlines this three step process in a little bit more detail. So if they’re interested in getting a free worksheet there, they can go to josephpliu.com/resigning-from-job/. And that will take them to the blog post, also they can download the free worksheet.

The other thing I’ve got coming up, if it’s useful for your listeners, is actually launching some online courses that will help people learn how to pitch their personal brand and define their personal brands. And this is a big part of transitioning from one job to the next. So if people want to learn more about that, they can also go to josephpliu.com

Mac Prichard:

Terrific,  we’ll be sure to include links to both your website and to the worksheet, and other content that you’re mentioning, Joseph. It’s been a pleasure to have you on the show.

Joseph Liu:

Okay, well thanks so much, Mac. I appreciate it.

Mac Prichard:

You’re welcome. Take care.

We’re back in the Mac’s List studio with Ben, Jessica, and Becky. I’d love to hear what you two thought, Jessica and Ben, about my conversation with Joseph.

Jessica Black:

That was a great conversation. He had a lot of great points. I really did, echoing what you mentioned earlier, I really liked his point about the transition file, of really laying that out and being prepared once you are ready to make that transition and I think that speaks volumes to the quality of you as a person, as an employee. And then it sets you up and it sets your organization up for success.

Mac Prichard:

You have many gifts, Jessica, and one of them is organizational abilities. I’m guessing you’ve always done something like that when you’ve left your previous jobs.

Jessica Black:

It hasn’t always come out in a formal file. Thank you, by the way; but yes, I do always want to look out for how to make sure that when I leave everybody knows what’s happening. Because yes, you’re right, I am usually the one that’s managing the organization, of the organization. So making sure that everybody knows where things are, and what things are tied and what things are still loose. All of that is really valuable, and it’s something that I’ve never left…thankfully, I’ve never left a place because I was having hard feelings or left in a huff. And even if things transpire where it’s not ideal, or you are leaving because things are getting to kind of a bitter end, I think it’s still really important to leave on the highest level and on the best relationships.

Mac Prichard:

Agreed. Ben, what are your thoughts? What were some key points you heard Joseph make?

Ben Forstag:

I really liked his point about the counter offer, and my take is that if you go and announce that you’re leaving you should…it should already be a done deal, and that you’re not open to a counter offer. The time to negotiate salary increases or benefit increases, that’s before you go off and start looking for another job, and that’s just my personal take so I appreciated his take on that.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah. And as a manager, I’ve twice made counteroffers to people who I really valued and I was sorry to see go and in both cases they declined. They did me the courtesy of taking twenty-four hours to think it through. But as I reflect on Joseph’s point, I can see why that can open a can of worms.

Ben Forstag:

And I think you might be more magnanimous than I am Mac. I mean, my thinking is there is a reason you’re out there looking for another job, or that you were open to another offer from someone else. It doesn’t mean you’re a bad person or whatever; there could be a lot of good reasons why you’re doing that. But if you were open to someone else’s offer, then that means it’s probably time for you to leave the organization you’re at.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah, agreed. And again, I know, Joseph and I spoke about this once or twice in that conversation, but you do create a legacy in the way you leave and how you manage yourself. And for better or worse, that’s probably how people are gonna remember you, so you want to do it in just as professional a way as you conducted yourself on the job. So good advice, and good contributions by you both.

Well, thank you, and thank you, Joseph, for joining us. And thank you, our listeners, for downloading today’s episode of Find Your Dream Job.

If you like what you hear, please sign-up for our free weekly newsletter.

In every issue, we give you the key points of that week’s show. We also include links to all the resources mentioned, including the worksheet that Joseph promised to share with us this week. And you also get a transcript of the full episode.

If you subscribe to the newsletter now, we’ll send you our Jobs Seeker Checklist. It’s one easy-to-use file, and it will show you all the steps you need to take  to find a great job.

Get your free newsletter and check list today. Go to macslist.org/podcast.

And join us next Wednesday when our special guest will be Lolly Daskal. She’ll explain how to understand and fill your gaps as a leader.

Until next time, thanks for letting us help you find your dream job.

You’ve made the big decision to move on from your current gig. But how do you quit a job without burning bridges or damaging your professional reputation?

The best thing for your career is to ensure the transition goes smoothly for yourself, your manager, and the company you are leaving. So says this week’s guest, Joseph Liu.

Your behavior and attitude during your last few weeks on the job leave a lasting legacy. Make sure people remember you as someone who covered all the bases before leaving, not someone who burned bridges.

This Week’s Guest

Joseph Liu is a career consultant, keynote speaker, columnist, and host of the Career Relaunch Podcast. He believes you must be willing to make a brave leap to create positive changes in your career.

Resources from this Episode