Bonus Episode 87: Meaningful Careers in Portland: Align Your Job with Your Values
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On Nov. 12, we hosted our final quarterly event of 2025 in partnership with B Local PDX. More than 200 people gathered for networking and a panel discussion, “Meaningful Careers in Portland: Align Your Job with Your Values.” In this recording of our conversation, you’ll hear grounded, hopeful advice for navigating a tough job market and finding work that feels meaningful.
Our panelists talk about staying motivated, managing burnout, and taking steady, realistic steps toward roles that reflect your values. They share practical strategies such as volunteering, networking, and informational interviews that will help you build connections and find opportunities across Portland’s B Corps, nonprofits, government agencies, and values-aligned for-profits.
About Our Guests:
Welcome
- Wesley Griffin, executive director of B Local PDX
Panelists
- Charles McGee, director of operations, Workplace Change
- Brandi Oldham, MHR, founder, Talent Career Coaching
- Nicole Stein, director of social impact and sustainability, Killian Pacific
Transcript
Find Your Dream Job, Bonus Episode 87:
Meaningful Careers in Portland: Align Your Job with Your Values
Airdate: December 8, 2025
Mac Prichard:
Mac’s List regularly sponsors public events in our hometown of Portland, Oregon. This allows job seekers, employers, and others to gather and make new friends and connections.
We recently teamed up with B Local PDX to host a panel conversation about meaningful careers in Portland and how to align your job with your values.
Here’s a recording of our conversation.
Wes Griffin:
Hey everybody! Thanks so much for coming out tonight. My name is Wes Griffin. I use he/him pronouns, and I’m the executive director at B Local PDX. Before I tell you about what we do, we’re a really small nonprofit, and we’re normally the ones asking for sponsors. Rarely are we the sponsor on the stage, so I’ve got to milk it a bit, right?
I’m going to tell you a little about my story and my why and how I ended up here tonight. We’re lucky to be friends and partners with Mac’s List. And we’re really proud to be sponsors of the event tonight.
I’m going to take you back a bit to 2014 and my first visit to Portland. I was working at Habitat for Humanity in New Orleans, Louisiana. I’m not entirely sure why –– I was running their Restores, secondhand home improvement stores –– and their conference was in Portland, Oregon.
I had never been to the Pacific Northwest, and a detail, you don’t need to know, but it’s important here. My new girlfriend and I were doing long distance. We didn’t get to see each other very often, so when one of us was traveling, the other one said, “Can I find a cheap ticket? Let’s go! Let’s explore.”
And we spent the weekend before my conference in Portland, tramping around, exploring, doing the kind of young relationship thing, asking, “Could we live there? What is this place about?
What’s it like?”
And we came away with this really sharp image because every business we walked into felt local and independent, and it felt like we learned about the purpose of that business or organization before we even learned about the products or services.
So we walked into, I don’t know, Tabor Bread, and we learned about regenerative wheat farming. We walked into a cafe and learned that they care about children’s theater before we even had the coffee. We learned how many companies are intentional and vocal about caring for their employees, and we went home going, “Wow, this place feels like it’s starting to invert capitalism in a good way.”
Many years later, not too many, 2021. We had the kind of flexibility that many people had during COVID, where our jobs were no longer the same as they had been. And we said, if we’re ever going to make the move, let’s do it now.
So when we started to look for jobs, I was pretty overwhelmed by what felt to me like giant, chaotic job boards.
And I was pretty thrilled to search on Mac’s List and see something that felt more curated, see roles that felt aligned with my values. And see an organization that felt like it wanted job seekers to succeed.
And I thought, well, whoever is behind that is probably pretty cool. I was right. I didn’t know that I was going to eventually find this job as the director of B Local PDX on Mac’s List and have the opportunity to work with them as a B Corp and work with over 160 other Certified B Corps in Oregon and Southwest Washington.
So I want to tell you a little bit about what we do. Our work is community building in a moment when we really need it. We really believe that thriving communities don’t happen without thriving businesses, particularly purpose-driven thriving businesses. So I know that’s what we’re going to talk about tonight, and I don’t want to overstay my welcome.
But what we found –– my now wife and I, when we were exploring –– I didn’t have words for it yet. It was a stakeholder-driven economy. It was businesses that care, for the flourishing of their suppliers and their customers, and certainly their employees. Who care about the planet, care about place, and believe that that’s not only the right thing to do, but a good way to do business.
So I’m thrilled to see this amazing turnout. If you resonate with that at all and know that community is valuable at a time when, more than ever, perhaps, people need to band together and be self-reliant and lean on each other, I would invite you to explore blocalpdx.com.
We have many types of events, from large conferences and large parties, down to policy advocacy, learning opportunities, and opportunities to network and get together to see values-aligned folks, whether you’re searching for a job at that moment or not. We would be really honored, and once again, so glad that you’re here tonight. With that, I’m gonna turn it over to Mac Prichard from Mac’s List.
Mac Prichard:
Thank you, Wes. It’s such a pleasure to partner with you and the B Local PDX team.
I also want to give a special shout-out to Ryan Buchanan of Thesis Agency for hosting us tonight.
Let’s hear it for Ryan, let’s hear it for Wes!
I’m so moved by the people who come up to me and say, “Thanks for putting this together,” and of course, I did not put this together. I’ve got a team of great coworkers at Mac’s List. Lisa Kislingbury Anderson, Susan Thornton-Hough, Katie Janovec, Taylor Spencer, Ronni Wilde, and Crystal Winger. They did great work tonight.
Please join me in thanking Lisa, Susan, Katie, Taylor, Ronni, and Crystal.
Again, I’m Mac Prichard. I’m the founder and CEO of Mac’s List.
We’re a regional job board that serves employers and job seekers in Oregon and Washington.
Our mission is to help people find work that matters and to make the hiring process more human.
We do this through our job board that Wes was telling you about and our free newsletter that goes out every Tuesday.
We not only want you to know about jobs. We want to help you improve your job search skills, too.
So, in addition to our jobs, go to our website. You’ll find lots of articles, guides, and a weekly podcast, “Find Your Dream Job.”
We also host events like this.
You can learn more about all these resources by visiting our website – macslist.org.
Let’s jump into our program. We’re going to hear from our panelists for 30 minutes.
Then we’re going to turn to you in the audience and take your questions for 20 minutes.
We’re going to close at 7:30 p.m.
But there’s another half hour for networking, so you’ll have a chance to talk to our panelists one-on-one as well as with each other.
I want you all to remember, you’re an expert. You know stuff. So take a moment to share what you know and connect with others.
Meet as many people as you can and look for ways to stay connected afterwards.
And if you haven’t done so already, go upstairs. There are nine tabling organizations here.
We have recruiters, career coaches, and professional groups that can help you not only with a job search, but throughout your career.
Okay, let me introduce our panelists:
Nicole Stein is the director of social impact and sustainability at Killian Pacific. Her company owns, manages, and develops meaningful places that sustain and enhance communities in the Pacific Northwest.
Charles McGee is the director of operations at Workplace Change. It’s a human resources firm that offers culturally inclusive solutions for people and organizations.
Brandi Oldham is the founder of Talent Career Coaching. Her firm helps individuals, teams, and entrepreneurs in all aspects of the career journey.
Please join me in welcoming our three panelists.
We’re gonna start with a quick read of the room, so panelists and you all can understand what’s on people’s minds.
I have three questions for you. We’ll get through them quickly.
Raise your hand if…
If you work for a purpose-driven employer? OK, good, about 15-20%.
If you’re looking for a job? Alright, maybe 90%.
If this is the first time you’re looking for mission-driven work? A significant part of the audience.
Let’s jump right into it. Nicole, why don’t we start with you? You work at a B Corp, Killian Pacific, so your company manages for the triple bottom line that Wes was talking about. Not just profit, but community and environmental benefits, too.
What makes work at a mission-driven organization meaningful for you?
Nicole Stein:
That’s such a good question. You know, when I think about the work I’ve done at mission-aligned or mission-forward companies, I think there’s a level of complexity to organizations that are also trying to do more for stakeholders that are a part of their kind of ecosystem.
I think that that complexity is probably where I personally find the most value in the roles that I’ve held and in particular one I hold right now, is that mission-aligned or mission-forward organizations have to think about more, and that forces me in those sort exercise that curiosity in my brain and think on behalf of others or think on behalf of the stakeholder that, you know, maybe we wouldn’t do otherwise.
Mac Prichard:
Terrific, Charles, let’s turn to you. Your company, Workplace Change, gets hired to recruit candidates for your clients, including nonprofits and government agencies. What opportunities do purpose-driven jobs offer beyond salary and benefits?
Charles McGee:
First of all, thank you, Mac, thank you, Thesis, thank you, everyone, for putting this great event on. So beyond a paycheck, we’re living in these unique times. And it feels like increasingly, we’re not only looking for human connection, but we’re looking for purpose, and we’re looking to be part of something great and something good.
And working for a purpose-driven organization, even as a recruiter, part of what’s so amazing is you get to find that connection – that thing that goes back to the childhood story, or the teacher you had, or the parent you had that inspired you, and increasingly, it feels like, and I don’t know about you, but that’s sort of needed. I mean, why else would we be out missing our family and the Blazers game, were it not for that something deeper, and something greater. Working for purpose-driven organizations is the thing.
Mac Prichard:
Brandi, you’re a career coach. And you work with people throughout their careers. Some people, when they hear purpose-driven work, think, “I can’t do that. I have bills to pay. I’ve got to take a job, any job. As you work with people throughout their careers, what difference do you the see the people who do put values first –– how does that affect their careers?
Brandi Oldham:
What I would say is if you have bills to pay, that’s real, and we get that. But on, you know, a deeper level, for the people who actually take the time and figure out what drives me, what gets me up in the morning, and then how do I translate that to a career?
That’s where I see the reduction in burnout. I see less turnover, I see more satisfaction, right?
And all of us here have lives outside of this room, and I’m a firm believer that if you are doing something with your career that you truly love…
We spend a ton of time in our careers throughout our lifetime. That’s going to translate when you go home. That’s going to translate to the relationship you have with your neighbors, with your children, with your parents, whoever that community might look like.
So if you are job seeking and you desperately need work to pay the bills, do that first, it can always be a half step, but then take that deeper moment to think, okay, if I could do something that was really aligned with who I am, that would make me the very best version of myself, what would that look like? And it could be a longer-term goal, if it needs to, but definitely a reduction in burnout, and burnout’s way too prevalent right now.
Mac Prichard:
So a lot of hands went up when I asked who was looking for work. Charles: You’re back in the hot seat. Let’s talk about recruitment because you do it every day. What are you seeing in today’s hiring market, especially for mission-driven roles?
Charles McGee:
Uh, well, you know what we’re seeing is a little drying right now.
Folks are not hiring at the same rate. Folks who are hiring are very, very clear about who they want, what they want, and what sort of problem they want solved and fixed.
But we’re also seeing that the applicants who are getting roles are applicants who are really, really clear. We had a team meeting earlier today, and we were talking about applicants who apply for everything. Don’t do that. Be specific, be targeted, be focused, be clear about what sort of job or company you want to work for, because companies can spot it.
You know, you can always tell if someone changes a couple of words in the resume. Make it as personal as possible, but also tell your story, tell your story in a way that connects to solving the employer’s problem.
Mac Prichard:
So follow-up question: I meet people all the time –– I did this earlier in my career, so I get it –– who say, “It’s a numbers game, Charles. If I send out lots and lots of applications, eventually something will stick.”
You’re getting those applications, you and other recruiters. Can you tell when that’s happening? What do you think?
Charles McGee:
Yeah, you can tell what’s happening, and you can also see that’s not effective. What works is relationships, what works is being human. You know, I was reading an article earlier today about the resurgence of malls. People want human connection.
Yes, employers want an employee who is going to be great and competent. They also want to see that there’s a story behind sort of, again, back to that teacher who inspired you, back to that origin story, and those connecting points, all sort of help to drive home the case for why you should get that job.
Mac Prichard:
Nicole, your company manages and leases property, so I’m curious about the hiring trends you are seeing among the employers your company serves.
Nicole Stein:
So, yes, I work for Killian Pacific, and we own and manage real estate across Oregon and Southwest Washington, and commercial real estate is a fairly interesting place to be right now.
We’re all seeing the headlines and reading about what’s happening, whether it’s building values, those sorts of things downtown. But what I think is really interesting is that you know, Portland is a market of, in many ways, small and medium-sized businesses, and that hopefully, has some resiliency and some sort of buoyancy, you know, in terms of what happens as these sort of larger waves happen.
So from a leasing or from a certain like tenancy perspective, we’re seeing an uptick right now. We’re seeing interest, we’re seeing LOIs coming forward, which means that people are starting to think about, you know, making sure that they’re settled in a place that they can grow. So shoots, like, very tiny green shoots, maybe, I hope.
Mac Prichard:
Brandi, you work with job seekers from start to finish. You help them with resumes, setting goals, getting ready for interviews. But also with negotiating salaries. Sometimes when people are chasing purpose-driven work, they think, “I gotta take a pay cut.” What kind of salary expectations do you coach your clients to have when pursuing a mission-driven job?
Brandi Oldham:
Yeah, so I think that’s a big misconception. So the first thing I would say is, if you aren’t doing research on the type of role that you’re doing, you’re doing the type of work that you’re going to be doing, and what that might look like. There are a lot of resources out there: Salary.com. Payscale.com, Glassdoor. There are a few you can kind of look at.
I have thoughts. Anyway. But do your research, right?
Figure out what your pay scale is for your current organization. If we look back to 2020, 2021, we did see an inflation on salaries, that kind of ballooned, right? And what we’re seeing right now is a bit of that course correction, which, for a lot of people, is painful, and I get that, but from a market standpoint, that’s actually healthy. We’re starting to come back down and get into more competitive salaries.
It doesn’t feel great as a job seeker, well aware, but looking at it like an organization’s health, we’re gonna get more stability if we start kind of course correcting. Again, a lot of thoughts there.
The other thing I would say is, you need to be able to, you know, kind of like Charles was saying, here, if you’re job searching, we get inundated with information. I mean, pull out your phone for five seconds, and like your eyes cross, right? There is so much information out there.
So, as a job seeker, there are two things you need to be really clear on: number one, what it is that you want to do, how you want to do it, and where you want to do it, so that people can help get you to that target faster.
But then that also translates over to the salary piece. If you know what you want to do, you know how you want to do it, and you know where you want to do it, you should be able to articulate the value that you’re bringing to an employer, which is what has to happen when it comes to that salary negotiation.
So those are the few things there that people are really in a gray area on, when I talked to job seekers. “I can do anything,” you know. We really gotta get clear because clarity brings fast answers and straight goals.
Mac Prichard:
So, know what you want, where you want to go, and what you offer.
Brandi, with job seekers I meet who are looking for purpose-driven work, they want to do it, but they’re not sure how to find it or how to make it happen. What’s the biggest challenge you see, the people you coach face when trying to land a job that aligns with their values?
Brandi Oldham:
Okay, every single person sitting in this room is gonna have a different definition of what purpose-driven looks like for them. And if you don’t know what your definition is, we need to talk.
Because everybody here has their own unique values system, right? And that value system doesn’t just turn off when you walk through a door to go to work. It translates into everything you do.
So you really do want to think about, okay, I’m invested in community, well, my next question is, what is community to you, is that, you know, your kids’ school, is that your neighborhood, is that a group that you belong to and you’re a member of, right? There are a lot of different ways to define that. And then what does it look like to impact that community?
And so one of the things I think is a little shortsighted, sometimes on the job seeker’s part, is number one, they don’t know what they’re looking for and how that ties to their value system, but then you can also expand it. It doesn’t always have to be a B Corp or nonprofit. It can be a for-profit organization if it’s tied to your unique value system.
So, purpose-driven work, especially in an economy like this, get creative with it. Like, it’s not always that straight path forward.
There are a lot of different ways we can create purpose-driven work, but if you don’t know what’s purpose-driven to you, that’s where you really have to start.
Mac Prichard:
Charles, you work with employers, but you also work with candidates. You’re talking with both parties. You shared with me that you encourage applicants to make sure their expectations match their competencies. What do you mean exactly? Why is this important, and how can job seekers do this?
Charles McGee:
You know, we often joke at the office about $200,000 being the new $100,000. You’d be amazed at how many people will interview for the job and see the pay range, and when it comes time to negotiate, say, “Oh, I want $200,000. It’s like, it wasn’t on the paper. It’s not realistic.
And so some of this stuff, folks have got to do comp analysis. Look at what’s realistic both for the field, for the company, for the role, because as Brandi was saying, in a lot of ways, the market, it’s correcting, and level-setting expectations a bit more.
Mac Prichard:
I think that many people in the room would agree it’s a tight job market, but people are still getting hired every day. Nicole, I’m curious. I know that, in our conversations, you talked about the importance of networking and how much that matters to employers.
Why do employers care about networking? Why don’t they just sit back and wait for the applications to roll in, and what kind of networking makes a difference?
Nicole Stein:
I think we all understand the importance of networking. I think, you know, networking is what’s going to get your next job.
It’s about the in-person engagement. It’s about the connection that you have today or that you make tomorrow, so that when you’re ready, find a job, and you’re ready to take a job shift, that you’ve got that network in place.
Networking matters to an employer because you get to know someone outside of a job interaction, a transaction related to that job, right? And you get to know someone’s curiosity, what they’re interested in, what they’re spending their time on, well in advance, then of needing to make that hire.
I wanted to go back to one of the points Brandi was making and just sort of reiterate that purpose-driven work can happen in a lot of places.
I’m here with two hats on, one of which is as a board member of B Local PDX, which is what Wes was introducing at the front end. Purpose-driven work can come through in a board role. It can come through in a volunteer role.
It can come through in a job that you may have today, that you may not think you love, but where you seek out a new assignment. You think about how that company can become a better company, that may be more values-aligned, but doesn’t feel like it today.
So I also want to make sure folks are really thinking about, you know, how you think expansively about aligning your values with your next role, with the way you’re gonna find your fulfillment.
There are a lot of different places you can do that. Certainly, it’s in finding a job, that is with a values-aligned company, or again, like, get really creative and you know, like, find some muscle as you’re inside your own current company and make some change there.
Mac Prichard:
Brandi, Nicole mentioned volunteering. I know you’re a big fan of volunteering, but also curiosity. How do curiosity and volunteering help you get a job?
Brandi Oldham:
Yeah, so, a lot of, if you were up with the booth earlier, who were asking you, like, what’s my one tip for job seekers? And everyone laughed when I kept saying, “Touch grass.”
But what I actually mean is the job search is a slog, and it will erode your confidence, it will erode your mental health. Like, there’s a lot that happens with that.
And so one of the things I tell my clients is, okay, we need a job search. Okay, great. What are we doing outside of that?
And one of the things I encourage them to do is to volunteer. Number one, it’s going to make you feel a bit about yourself, which is a confidence boost. But number two, if you pick an organization that aligns with your values, guess who else is going to be there?
Other people in alignment with your values.
And so you’re going to naturally start networking, and what you don’t know is, maybe I know Charles, maybe I know someone else, right? And you might make that natural connection to be like, “Oh, well, if you’re looking for this, you should talk to this person.”
So volunteering is a great way. The other thing I tell people is informational interviews, which I know Mac talks a lot about. I talk a lot about it as well.
Get curious. Ask people, is your day-to-day what I actually think it is, or is it something totally different? And how do you end up where you are?
Because what you might find is the path that led them to what you thought you wanted to do today might actually have the insight into what you really want to do today.
So get curious, meet people, do the uncomfortable thing. I hate networking as much as probably half the people in this room.
It’s not my favorite jam, I’ll be honest. But it is so important, and I try to reframe it from a place of I want to get to know people on a deeper level. I’m gonna get curious about that, and that reframes the whole thing.
Mac Prichard:
Quick follow-up, Brandi. What’s your best advice for building relationships if you’re new to a field or an industry, if you’re making a career switch?
Brandi Oldham:
I mean, get curious, right? Ask people about themselves. People love to talk about themselves. Clearly, I’m holding a mic. Like, ask people how did you end up here, what do you do? People are more human than you think. So, um, introduce yourself and ask a question.
Mac Prichard:
Charles, again, you’re talking to candidates and employers every day in your recruitment jobs. What difference can understanding an organization’s culture make in helping you stand out and get hired?
Charles McGee:
Oh, it makes a huge difference. Understanding a company’s culture allows you to better articulate not only who you are but what you bring to the table. We were talking about a recruitment we’re working on, and an applicant showed up for the interview and started asking basic questions about the organization that, if you had read just the front page of the website, you would have picked up.
Do your homework and recognize that because there are so many applicants, you really have to come with your value proposition. You really have to be really, really clear about who you are, what you bring, and what problem you solve for this organization.
Mac Prichard:
So read the front page of the website. So there are a lot of very earnest people in the room, including me. What if we want to go beyond that? What do you recommend?
Charles McGee:
Every company nowadays has an Instagram page and a Facebook page. Like, the more you know, the better. It’s also preventive.
It’s also, you know, I always tell people that in recruitment, it’s almost like a wedding. We all love them. No one wants to go when the D word pops up, and the divorce stuff starts to happen.
And if you do enough pre-work on the date, you can actually prevent the breakup. And so spend your time, like, really courting this organization. Like, I always tell people, just as much as we’re recruiting for them, like, how I approach you in this process is also indicative of how you may be treated because after all, they hired us.
And so be comfortable exploring, be comfortable also walking away, because at the end of the day, your mental health is also important.
Mac Prichard:
There are a lot of people in the audience working in the private sector who are perhaps pivoting into nonprofits, the government, or B Corps. Nicole, let’s talk about how career pivots can happen. If someone’s not ready to take a giant leap right now but wants to take incremental steps to do that, what do you recommend?
Nicole Stein:
I first want to say B Corps are for-profit organizations, they are for-profit companies that have mission-driven focuses. So I just want to make sure that that’s clear. So, how do you think about an incremental step? I think, again, where are you right now?
Is there an opportunity for you to think within that organization that may allow you to expand into an area that you aren’t currently in, you know, that sort of isn’t your wheelhouse necessarily?
I think sometimes taking a step back to go forward is also something that may be important, just, again, given the dynamic and landscape that we’re in right now, but those aren’t necessarily backward steps forever. They’re sort of the next step to take yourself toward, again, what may be your long-term goal.
So, I guess, you know, for me, I just always think about, like, I’m making my next step versus I’m making like, the step of a lifetime.
You get to make the next decision after the next decision after the next decision.
Mac Prichard:
Charles, how can showcasing your skills to your network help you make the switch to mission-driven work?
Charles McGee:
We talk a lot about how we hire people we know, right? Like, you think about it, you get a position description from someone you know or Mac’s List, I hope. You’re more inclined because of the relationship, because of the values, you’re more inclined to click it and read it. And so your network will help you find your next opportunity.
So, getting really clear about who’s in at, who do they know, what sort of do they bring? A pet peeve of mine is when we’re doing an interview, and folks name-drop. It’s better if the person calls me and talks about you and talks about how they work with you and how they know about you, than if you’re endlessly name-dropping.
One of the funny things is that there have been times when people name-drop the other person, and they’re just LinkedIn friends. And so make sure there’s actual context. Make sure there’s actually something there.
Mac Prichard:
Why does mentioning someone’s name make a difference to recruiters like you?
Charles McGee:
It matters because it helps contextualize some of the things. Especially if there’s a professional alliance, right? Like, don’t name-drop your cousin, right? Like, unless you’ve worked with your cousin, and your cousin can speak to your professional skills. See it as a reference. See it as a connecting point.
Mac Prichard:
Let’s do a final round, and then we’ll open it up for questions. I think there’s a lot of interest in the audience in connecting with Portland’s mission-driven community –– with employers, professional groups, and other opportunities. Just quickly, what’s your number one tip for connecting with Portland’s mission-driven community?
Charles McGee:
You know, Portland is going through, let’s call it, a resurgence, a sort of value-setting moment. This is the perfect time. It’s the perfect time because everyone’s asking themselves their why. And I think the way to do it is just to sit at a coffee shop and talk to people. Humans, like we are looking for a human connection, and going back to that will get us out of this thing quicker.
Brandi Oldham:
Um, I mean, what I said earlier, as far as if you don’t understand your value system, you’re gonna have a really hard time understanding what purpose looks like for you. So take that time, get to know what that is, and talk with the people around you. And then the other thing, once you have figured that out, actually, I was teaching a leadership seminar this morning. We were talking about the Pareto Principle, if anyone’s familiar with that.
And it’s essentially that, a lot of times we spend 80% of our time on menial tasks when 20% would actually drive it. So for anyone in here who’s job searching, I would think strategically about that 20%. Twenty percent of what we do can actually drive 80 percent of our impact.
So once you’ve figured out what that value system is, I would actually start thinking, okay, what is the one thing I can do to drive myself forward, exponentially, versus sitting at a computer and hitting submit on quick apply.
Like, what’s the thing that’s gonna make me a little bit uncomfortable, but it’s actually gonna drive me forward? It’s likely tapping into a network, but for you, it might look different. But find your values and then actually do the thing that’s the big, scary goal.
Mac Prichard:
So let’s explore that a little more. When you think about the people you’ve worked with who’ve figured out what’s gonna drive them forward. What do they do exactly?
Brandi Oldham:
I will tell you 99% of the clients come to me, and they’re like, “Please help me with my resume. Please help me with my cover letter.
Please help me with my interviewing skills,” which I can do all of those things. But at the end of the day, if you’re just sitting at a computer and you’re hitting apply on these really big platforms, it’s going to the abyss.
So I would say if you were new and you’re job searching, set a timer for 30 minutes; you don’t need to be cruel, and just put down a list of every single person you know that you admire. Start there.
Reach out and do an informational interview.
Tell him exactly what you’re looking for and what your value system is.
Mac Prichard:
How do you know that’s working? You walk away from the coffee shop, and you think, “Oh, that’s great, I got this done.” Or “Gosh, why did I do that?”
Brandi Oldham:
You’re gonna go, you’re not gonna be looking for a job, you’re gonna be curious about what, so the way that I do it with my clients. Okay, so I do past, present, and future. How did you get here? What is your current day-to-day look like, and what does the future of your job look like?
I actually had a client who asked that question, and they were like, “Oh, our funding is getting cut in two months.” Well, that job is out, right?” So ask those three questions, have fun, and ask some other questions, but genuinely take an interest in them. The more they talk, the more they will like you.
And then at the very end, I want you to ask, “Great, I’m looking for a role in X. These are my values, and this is how I want to apply them. Is there anybody in your network that I should be reaching out to?” And then start writing down names, and that’s how you start getting out of your circle.
Mac Prichard:
What are you going to learn as you have those conversations?
Brandi Oldham:
You are going to open up multiple chapters in a book that you did not know even existed, because the path that everyone takes to that current role is nothing like what you expect. I own a second company, I own an interior design company. Guaranteed if that was on, like, two truths and a lie, nobody in here would pick that.
So that kind of thing is going to help you start to think differently about your job search and start to explore avenues that you really had no idea existed before that. So you are opening yourself up to a lot of opportunity, not just like the door in front of you, but the second-story window that you can crawl through.
Nicole Stein:
What I would say is Brandi’s tips, and then make sure that when you’re thinking about the network of companies that you’re interested in or the organizations that you’re interested in, start with B Local PDX. We have a membership list of 160 companies that are B Corps here in the state of Oregon and Southwest Washington. Many of them are members.
We like to do events. We are very generous with our time. We’re interested in helping people grow this movement of purpose-driven companies, and most folks would be happy to sit down and have a coffee, or do exactly what Brandi just suggested, which is to help you grow your network.
Mac Prichard:
Well, let’s turn to you, the audience. We’ve got 20 minutes for your questions, and I know we’re going to circulate a mic.
So if you want to raise your hand, and when you ask your question, please share your name. Who would like to go first? There’s a gentleman in the front row. Stand open and share your name.
Jhojan Oriz:
All right. My name is Jhojan Oriz.
I work for a financial institution. My question is related to what you said about volunteering, participating, or getting involved in a board of directors position, so I wanted to see if you have any comments or if you can expand a little more on what that approach looks like.
Nicole Stein:
I sit on a board. These are the things that I’m interested in. There are things that make sense for me in my career right now, so I’m already sort of triangulated that these are spaces that make sense for me to spend time in.
As a company, we became members of Wes’ organization, and then I said, I’m interested in figuring out, how to maybe participate a little bit more and maybe influence the way this organization runs. And so that was my path, just being really interested and saying, “This is great. Do I have an opportunity to add to it?” That is how I found my way into board service related to this.
Charles McGee:
We all have talents, we all have gifts. Someone asked me earlier why I want to be here. I just want to peddle hope right now. We just need hope. And part of the hope is putting ourselves to work. Because part of the hope is action. And we all have something we can give, and there are so many causes in the world right now that need us. And so literally don’t be shy, pick up the phone, call your local nonprofit, and do something.
Brandi Oldham:
I don’t sit on a board, and I don’t have boundaries, so no I can’t do that right now. I have a toddler. Maybe in five years, when he’s in school. Truly look outside of your front door. So, again, I have a toddler, life is a little hectic right now, but this summer we had kids running through our neighborhood. We’ve got a lot of parents who work multiple jobs. These kids are just hanging out. And that I decided to create, like, a little free library that’s kids only, no adult books. But something like that, right?
Now I’ve met all of the parents in my neighborhood because they’re like, “Hey, my kid loves coming here.” The local teacher now drops off little bracelets for it that her kindergarten class makes. I’ve met her, right?
So it can be something that’s that simple. If there’s trash in your neighborhood, pick it up, and you’ll meet your neighbor. Right. Really, it can be truly that simple.
Sunrise Omahoney:
An elephant-in-the-room question: AI and resumes. I know that it’s not a good idea to have AI write it completely.
My question is more, how do we compete putting everything that we need to get into a resume in a concise way if we can’t do it by ourselves? I guess just thoughts on the AI piece of things. I know you all probably have a lot of opinions.
Charles McGee:
So I think there are uses and spaces for modern technology. As a recruiter, one of the things that I try to really do is to get to know the person in front of me because the last thing I want to do is turn someone over to a client and there to be a surprise.
And so the approach we take as an organization allows us to really get to know an applicant. We really spend time getting to know who people are. We take you through multiple processes and multiple approaches, multiple days, so that we can get to see who you are, because the human experience is complicated.
One of the things that I often lament is how you’d be surprised with, fill in women or minority group, how people will leave critical elements of their professional experience out of their resumes.
And so we really want to get to know who you are, and there are things that AI in technology just can’t translate yet, and probably never will be able to for a good reason. And so, again, go back to the human experience. Go back to the origin story and what drives you and motivates you.
Brandi Oldham:
I have thoughts. Okay, so before I became a career coach, I was a recruiter and designed applicant tracking systems. So I’m gonna give a spoiler alert for everybody in the room: AI in recruiting is not new.
It’s just, thank you. Yay! Great.
But nobody knew that. It was like this behind-the-scenes thing that no one really talked about. So, yes, there’s always been matching software. There’s always been keywords, there’s always been ranking systems, depending on which one you’re using.
So, here’s what I will say. You cannot replicate a human voice. I’m sorry, at this point, people will send me their resumes, and I’m like, “Cool, ChatGPT or cool, Claude wrote this right?”
And you can get good. It’s not a fast solution, but what works better is actually sitting down and doing a comprehensive resume where you talk about all of your professional accomplishments, use data, use numbers; people want to see that.
And then every time you go to apply, you want to make a tailored resume, which is what most people are using ChatGPT for: they are making a copy of it, and then going through and deleting anything on that resume that’s not relevant.
Then take it to your favorite AI service. I use this with my clients, and I show them how to do it. You can drop in the job posting and the resume that you have drafted and say, “Dear buddy, tell me how closely I match this job.” They’re going to spit out some percentage number, and then you can give it another prompt that says, “How can I incrementally increase this by 5 percent?”
And then you, as a human, go back and make those recommendations as long as it’s not baloney. Like, if you don’t have that experience, you can put it on your resume.
And then the other one I like to debunk, which just started floating around again, and I don’t really know why there’s a Reddit feed out there that says, if you take the job posting, you put it in white ink at the bottom of your resume, you’ll get an interview.
We don’t want you to be 100% match. That’s weird and creepy. We want you to be like 80-90%.
Mac Prichard:
The white type story just keeps coming back every 5-10 years. For people who don’t know what we’re talking about, this is the idea that if you put in all the keywords as white type, it doesn’t count toward the character limit. Somehow, it will be the magic key that unlocks the kingdom. Doesn’t work.
Ray:
Do you have any advice about the best way to set up informational interviews?
Brandi Oldham:
Everybody wants to help others. We never know when we’re going to be in the same situation that you’re in, let’s be real. We also never know when our health is going to be fragile. People like to help people, so remind yourself, if someone were asking me this question, would I help? The answer most of the time is yes. So try to lean into that.
And then the other thing is if you’re trying to get into an organization, I was just talking to somebody about this earlier. If you go on LinkedIn, I try to tell my clients, try to shoot for somebody that’s kind of the middle of their career, right?
They’ve been there for a few years, they know the culture, they know the ins and outs, but they’re not so high up that they’re never going to see your message because life’s busy, and they’re not so new that they don’t really have a lot to offer.
So try to shoot kind of the middle of the road there, and then at the end of it, again, who else can I talk to? And you’ll be surprised how many times they’re like, “Hey, meet my boss,” or the executive director, whoever that might be. My other hack is that if you go on LinkedIn, you can search past employers.
So, I use this as a small business owner; everybody wants me to pay for marketing.
If I don’t know who your business is, I will go find somebody who recently left your company, and I’ll reach out to them and say, “Hey, can I chat with you for 10 minutes?” And then they will tell me all I need to know about whether or not it’s a good investment or not.
You can do the same thing for job searching, so if someone recently left that organization, they’re gonna really tell you the honest truth about the culture, about what it was like, and if they’re still well-connected with the organization, they can potentially get you into a referral network.
Miles:
As someone who has not worked for a nonprofit, agency, or B Corp before, but is applying and wanting to get into them, what’s something I may not know about the culture, or what’s something that may make a company hesitant to hire me?
Nicole Stein:
Brandi has said this, but, you know, translate your values and your expertise to them, right? So make sure that you’re doing a good job of sort of presenting, not just, I want to work for a, you know, fill in the blank for a purpose-driven organization, but why are you uniquely positioned?
If you can come in and have that conversation, even in an informational interview. Like, “I found your company, I’m really passionate about what you do. Tell me more about this project you’re working on, right?” Like, those are just the right ways to sort of go about matching your values and interests to the market and what’s happening.
Charles McGee
Be comfortable not making a lateral move. Recognize that, while skill can be transferable, the context has to be different. Often, when I see a nonprofit, like a CFO coming from the private sector wanting to go into a nonprofit.
The nonprofit folks are going to be a little nervous because they’re like, “Oh, my God, this is going to be a business person coming in here making cuts based on, you know, this on a business matrix and not on human stuff. And so just understanding that, you know, these things are real and they exist, and be comfortable with that.
Brandi Oldham:
I’m going to tee up Charles here. If you’re working with the recruiter, they are your friend. Get to know them. I’ll tell you a lot of things that you may not know about the organization or how to even best sell yourself. Like, they want you to win. So, this is your buddy.
Ellen:
My name is Ellen. There are so many people on the panel tonight that you guys all probably have good stories to tell. So what’s a recent win from your career coaching, recruiting, or your work that you can share to keep peddling that hope? I love that.
Charles McGee:
One of the things I love about recruiting is that match. And one of the things that is always, always, always so fulfilling, is I love it when not only you make the match, but then when the salary time comes around.
And particularly for women and minority folk is when they get really big pay jumps. Especially when they get page jumps, and they didn’t necessarily believe in themselves. And so for me, we recently had that, where someone made a pretty big pay jump, and it even came with, you know, a bonus package, and they were not used to that at all. And seeing that, “Oh my goodness, I’m worth it.”
Brandi Oldham:
I’m going to put one of my clients on the spotlight. Jen over here in the corner.
If you see Jen, she’s volunteering tonight, but give her a very big congratulations. She just accepted an offer with a lot of growth potential. But the thing that you don’t know about Jen is that it was 12 months of job searching. So as a career coach, I get to know my clients really, really well.
And let me tell you, that girl standing over there has one of the best portfolios. I literally wrote a blog about it. If you’re in the creative field and you’re, like, worried about your portfolio, go read it. She’s a solid talent in this market, and this market is so, so hard. And so getting that message from her, yeah, just tell her congratulations, she knocked it out of the park.
Nicole Stein:
I crowd-sourced some ideas to come here tonight. One of my colleagues on the B Local PDX board suggested a handful of private equity companies that are B Corps, and that being an interesting resource because they have access to lots and lots of different companies, and they’re investing in them for a reason; they have a point of view around environmental impact or social equity, or whatever their orientation is.
So there are two: Better Ventures and Obvious Ventures, both private equity firms investing in companies in hopes that they’ll be the solution to some of our environmental and social needs.
Jenny:
So my question again is: if we aren’t currently local, do you have any specific advice on breaking into this kind of area from outside the region?
Brandi Oldham:
What I will say is that it’s very hard to try to break into a local market. But since the pandemic, everyone is now mostly equipped with Zoom and other virtual platforms. So you can do informational interviews from anywhere in the world, and that’s what I would say, start breaking out and creating some sort of a network here. Come chat with me. I’ve got like five friends here from Oklahoma that we can get you in touch with.
Charles McGee:
You know, I will say again, just go to your local coffee shop. One of the cool things about Portland is that it is still a fairly relational place. It is still a really small community. And so getting into networks is not very difficult. You just gotta be persistent.
Nicole Stein:
And I would say, you know, again, find an event, we have lots of events that are happening through B Local PDX. Just put yourself out there and start to sort of find your way toward that next tier of folks.
Mac Prichard:
Well, that brings our panel to a close. Before we wrap up, are you all comfortable with anybody here connecting with you on LinkedIn? But with the requirement that they put in a personal note. Please do that. Next year, we plan six events, so stay tuned, and thank you all for joining us tonight. Please join me in thanking our panel.