The Secret to Career Fulfillment, with Elona Landau

It may not be difficult to find a job, but to find one that is personally and professionally fulfilling can be much harder. How do you approach a job search that ends with a position you love? Find Your Dream Job guest Elona Landau suggests beginning with self-reflection. What are your values? What means the most to you? Follow that with a mindset check. What do you believe about yourself and your ability to perform? And finally, Elena says, clarify your skill set. What can you offer an employer that will solve their problems, and what skills are you continuing to develop to further your career advancement? 

About Our Guest:

Elona Landau is the principal of the Department of Practical Sunshine.

Resources in This Episode:

• If you’re a manager or director with a growth mindset, or an individual who needs help clarifying and setting goals, learn more about how Elona can help you by visiting practicalsunshine.co.
• Connect with Elona on LinkedIn.
• Use promo code DREAMJOB at the link below to get an exclusive 60% off an annual plan at incogni.com/dreamjob.

Transcript

Find Your Dream Job, Episode 511:

The Secret to Career Fulfillment, with Elona Landau

Airdate: July 23, 2025

Mac Prichard:

This is Find Your Dream Job, the podcast that helps you get hired, have the career you want, and make a difference in life.

I’m your host, Mac Prichard. I’m also the founder of Mac’s List. It’s a job board in the Pacific Northwest that helps you find a fulfilling career.

Every Wednesday, I talk to a different expert about the tools you need to get the work you want.

Finding a job that leads to a rewarding career doesn’t happen by chance.

Our guest today says to get the work you want, you need to take three steps.

Aren’t you curious to know what they are?

Elona Landau is here to talk about the secret to career fulfillment.

She’s the principal of the Department of Practical Sunshine.

Her company helps managers, boards, and teams set and reach their goals.

Elona joins us from Portland, Oregon.

Now, Elona, you say the secret to career fulfilment is self-reflection.

Tell us more about this.

Elona Landau:

It’s an interesting place to start, right? Because often people think that their career pursuits need to be centered on the tasks they’re going to do, the titles they’re going to hold.

And those are very important things, but ultimately, the only thing that is consistent in every role that we are in is ourselves. And if we don’t know who we are, what we’re about, what is important to us, and how we wish to serve in the world, it can end up with us being in a place of feeling empty, not feeling whole, not feeling in alignment with our best selves.

So when we start the process of looking for a new job, whether the pivot came to us or we are choosing the pivot, looking inward is an excellent first step, and I encourage everyone to see it as a must-do, not a “nice to do.”

Mac Prichard:

We’re gonna talk about three steps you recommend to do that self-reflection, Elona.

But before we do that, say more about how self-reflection helps you, especially during a job search.

Elona Landau:

Job searches can feel so ungrounding. They can bring up a lot of questions about our identity, our feelings of self-worth, our ego, and frankly, about our skills, talents, interests, gifts, and abilities.

So starting from a point of self-reflection, where you can really identify for yourself, who are you? What’s important to you? What do you want to bring forward right now in your life? – allows you to come from a place of proactivity, of empowerment, of agency, in a time where often we feel disempowered and our agency feels removed from us as we’re waiting for responses from prospective employers, etc.

Mac Prichard:

So that’s how self-reflection can help you when you’re looking for work.

But what happens, Elona, if you skip this step and instead you sit down at the computer and start sending out applications without doing the self-reflection?

Elona Landau:

Well, I imagine some people end up okay. But most people end up feeling a lack of wholeness.

And that may seem a little woo to some of the listeners, but to me, recognizing that what we do, that our jobs, our careers, are so much of our lives, both in terms of time and in terms of identity, that skipping this step doesn’t allow you to have that same holistic groundedness that we will need in order to be successful wherever we ultimately land.

Mac Prichard:

Often, there is urgency when you look for work. You need to pay your bills, and you may consider taking a job for the paycheck, and that might not align with your short or especially long-term goals.

How can self-reflection help you if you find yourself in this situation?

Elona Landau:

That’s the reality is that often we are required to take a job because we need to have a home, feed ourselves and other folks, and I don’t want to diminish the importance of that.

However, once you know what is actively important for you, in this moment, you can reconcile any decision. So while your ideal dream job might be one of service, and that is a top value or priority for you, it may also be a top priority for you to feel stable and secure.

So if you take a job knowing that you’re mostly taking it for the paycheck, you can still feel grounded in the value that you have established of feeling that priority of stability for now.

It’s not an either or, it’s a both and.

Mac Prichard:

What’s the difference between a conscious compromise, like you just described, and a bad fit?

Elona Landau:

A bad fit often feels like every day is a values violation. And what I mean by that is it causes friction with you and who you know you are at your core.

And so, realizing that you can bring yourself back into alignment by accepting that what you are doing is offering and providing you with certain core needs, having those needs met, will bring you into somewhat of an alignment. Maybe not perfect alignment in the way that a fully aligned position could be, but definitely gets you a little bit closer.

Mac Prichard:

So let’s talk about how to do the self-reflection that leads to career fulfillment.

You break it down into three parts: heartset, mindset, and skillset.

Let’s start with the first part: heartset. What do you mean by heartset, Elona?

Elona Landau:

It’s a triangle, so each of the three components interact. Heartset is about what you feel in your heart.

And I know, again, this may seem a little woo, a little out there for folks. But what we know about our heartset is it tells us how we feel. It tells us who we are at our core and what we value.

And this is really about recognizing that as unique beings on this planet, we have special gifts, talents, and interests to share. And starting with knowing what that means for you is a really critical piece of the triangle.

Mac Prichard:

In your work, do you find that many people ignore heartset when making career decisions?

Elona Landau:

Absolutely. And I am guilty of this as well. I am a planner, I like to prepare, or prepare to be prepared, or think about preparing to be prepared.

So I recognize that for a lot of folks, the logic, the planning, the structure of a job search feels like the most important. And I would argue that in order to be truly in alignment and to have it feel fulfilling or have where you land be fulfilling, if you skip this step, you’re missing that critical component.

Mac Prichard:

How do you explore heartset? Are there questions you recommend asking yourself or exercises you have your clients do?

Elona Landau:

Oh yes, I start almost every client engagement with a “what are your values” worksheet. It’s about a 5-page document that allows each client to identify their top 8 values and then critically define them for themselves.

What my meaning of agency is may not be yours, and so knowing what it is to you, how it resonates with you, and how it could play out in your job search is a really excellent exercise.

It’s even better if you can talk it through with someone else. I find that bouncing your definition off of someone else gets you to a stronger point of clarity and understanding of what it actually means.

Mac Prichard:

As you do this work, what role do personal values play in determining heartset?

Elona Landau:

I think they are almost one and the same, in that knowing who you are at your core and acting in alignment with what is important to you brings that heartset forward in a really stable and empowering way.

I also would say that values get a little bit of a bum rap sometimes; it feels a little amorphous.

And for that reason, taking the time to define it, to really think them through, brings it into clarity and better focus. And then makes them tools that you can apply when you are assessing potential opportunities that come to you.

Mac Prichard:

What’s the best way to get clarity about your personal values when you’re thinking about heartset?

Elona Landau:

It starts with the willingness to look inward and accept that there are probably things inside of you that don’t feel so great. Whether they are places where you know you’ve acted out of alignment, whether you’ve been in situations where you needed to perform certain duties or show up in a certain way, for your own survival.

And again, no shame, no blame, in that, but knowing that those are sculpting events that you can mine for data, will allow you to use those lessons if you are reflective on them, if you sit with them, and think about them in a proactive way.

Mac Prichard:

Well, this is terrific, Elona. We’re gonna take a break. When we come back, Elona Landau will continue to share her advice on the secret to career fulfillment.

We’re back in the Mac’s List studio. I’m talking with Elona  Landau.

She’s the principal of the Department of Practical Sunshine.

Her company helps managers, boards, and teams set and reach their goals.

Elona joins us from Portland, Oregon.

Now, Elona, before the break, we were talking about the secret to career fulfillment.

And you say it’s self-reflection, and to do self-reflection well, you need to take three steps, and the first is looking at heartset.

Let’s talk about the second step you recommend for doing self-reflection. It’s mindset.

What is mindset, and how is it different from heartset?

Elona Landau:

Mindset has to do with the way we think. It has to do with the frames we apply to any situation, and it has to do with self-talk.

So recognizing that a lot of the way that we see the world is based on what our brain, or how our brain is making sense of it, is a critical piece for you to recognize you actually have control over that. You can’t control everything you think, but you can control the way that you perceive things if you take the time to recognize that it is an act of perception.

So, in other words, one of the things that I tell people to think about is what are you bringing forward into your job search that may not be serving you, and where did that come from?

If you were let go from a previous position, you may start to have some thoughts about yourself of unworthiness, or maybe it’s because I’m too old, or all kinds of, all of the “isms” might come in here. And recognizing that keeping those mindsets in place may not be allowing you to show up with the openness and with the confidence that you need to have.

Of course, the other parts of mindset that most people are probably familiar with have to do with a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset. A scarcity mindset versus an abundance mindset. All of these have to do with understanding that the way we think and the way we see the world is something that we can choose.

Mac Prichard:

Well, let’s talk about those objections that you might be carrying around that might affect your mindset. You mentioned ageism as an example.

There are other concerns that people might have that they believe would prevent them from getting the job they want.

How do you manage that, Elona? I suppose there are two parts: How do you identify the “isms” as you said, that are, are preventing you from moving ahead?

And then how do you manage those?

Elona Landau:

The first thing, once you recognize them, is that you get to decide, is this true? Is this true for me? Is this actually helping me to believe that this is true?

So those three questions can really get you into the space of considering whether it is a valuable thought or frame that you are bringing forward.

And then the other part is to know that when you recognize it, you can actively choose a different mindset. You can say, in the past I believed XYZ, but now I believe this is true.

I find for some folks, it can be helpful to figure out what the source of that mindset is. Often it is a person, whether it’s a previous client, or a previous boss, or a coworker, that may have said something that just stuck and changed the way you think about yourself. Decide if it’s time to dismantle that and let that go, and replace it with a different mindset that you create for yourself.

Mac Prichard:

How do you do this work exactly? Especially if you’re on your own, do you talk to a peer, do you need to work with a coach? What is effective?

Elona Landau:

Both of those can be incredibly effective.

When you talk to a peer, it can be really helpful if they’re someone that knows you and can boost your ego to say, “That’s not how I see you.” It can really give a gut check.

But it also comes with a bit of a bias, right? Most people you would be talking to about your job search or working through your mindset issues with are probably already in your corner. So it might not be totally neutral.

A coach, therefore, can provide you with that neutral, objective opinion and allow you to see things in a different way that might be difficult for you to do on your own.

That being said, once you are a, have had the experience of doing mindset work with someone else, I do find that it is something that you can do for yourself on a more solo basis, and you can learn the questions that really help you to get to the core, and those are often things like I mentioned earlier, what is true for you? Does this seem accurate, or have I attached to something that is not really true for me?

Mac Prichard:

So you’ve identified the barriers that are affecting your mindset and the steps you need to overcome them.

What happens next?

Elona Landau:

That’s when you start to frame your mindset in the most constructive, proactive way for where you are right now.

I am someone who will find a fulfilling career. I am someone who doesn’t need to be held back because I am of a certain age. I am someone who has consistently demonstrated resilience and the ability to move forward even in difficult circumstances.

So while your previous mindset might have been holding you back, you have the opportunity to develop one that will propel you forward.

Mac Prichard:

How does your mindset show up in interviews or networking conversations, especially if you don’t address these problems?

Elona Landau:

I have been on the other side of the table, and I can always tell when a candidate is coming in with a clear mindset about who they are and what they bring to the table. It’s an energy that people bring in, but it also comes through in their answers.

They have a sense of clarity, they have a focus, and it allows me, as the person considering whether this person is a good fit, to see the core and the truth of who they are and how they might be a good fit for the role.

Mac Prichard:

And how do you come across if you haven’t done this mindset work?

I often find it looks like a feeling of insecurity, especially that scarcity mindset. When people come into a job interview, or when I coach people, I tell them to think of it like dating; you want to be enthusiastic, not desperate.

And when people who come in without doing the mindset work of abundance, of growth, have that little bit of scarcity to them, and it comes across as being less confident, and frankly, less appealing.

Mac Prichard:

So we’ve talked about the first two steps for self-reflection, heartset, and mindset.

Let’s talk about the third one: skill set.

What role does your skill set play in self-reflection?

Elona Landau:

Since it is a part of this triangle, skill set impacts both your heartset and your mindset directly.

Knowing what you actually are capable of doing, having trust and faith in both your hard skills and your soft skills, putting time and effort into developing new skills if you feel like your skills are outdated can help you to feel more confident and frame yourself in that mindset of being well suited for future roles and also proves to your heartset that you have values.

So this is the tangible action of this heartset/mindset/skill set triangle. This is the piece that people can really grasp almost right away. And certainly it includes updating your resume, doing all of the networking, all of the really the actions of the job search. Each time you do that, each time you engage in that, it actually, if done well, supports the other two tenets of the triangle.

Mac Prichard:

So you’re showing people what you can do, what you offer.

Many candidates might think that your skills alone should get you the position you want.

What’s the risk of building a job search only around your skillset and not paying attention to mindset and heartset?

Elona Landau:

It’s hollow, it feels less complete. It’s not a holistic way of approaching it. And as much as I would say that our jobs can be transactional, what we’re hoping for again is career fulfillment and feeling a sense of wholeness in our roles and in our careers.

So, without those other two pieces, you may just feel like a cog in the wheel. So recognizing that we have the power to bring different elements to what might otherwise feel like a transactional situation, I find to be really empowering and frankly inspiring.

Mac Prichard:

How do you pull all this together, Elona? Heartset, mindset, and skill set.

And typically, how long does it take someone to do this work?

Elona Landau:

It’s, it varies pretty dramatically. Folks who’ve already established some form of introspective practice – mindfulness, meditation, mindful walking, times in silence, moments of solitude – are a little bit ahead of the game in terms of recognizing the importance of reflection.

But folks who come up and say, I’ve never really done the internal work of my career or understand who I am at my core, that takes a little bit longer.

Mac Prichard:

Well, it’s been a terrific conversation.

Now tell us, Elona, what’s next for you?

Elona Landau:

Well, I hope to continue serving the world and helping people to know, speak, and live their truth.

I am continuing my coaching and consulting, and I have a few exciting strategic planning retreats and other engagements on the calendar.

Mac Prichard:

Well, I know listeners can learn more about that work and other services you offer by visiting your website: www.practicalsunshine.co.

And you also invite our audience to connect with her on LinkedIn. When you do reach out to Elona, I hope you’ll mention you heard her on Find Your Dream Job.

Now, Elona, given all the great advice you shared today, what’s the one thing you want a listener to remember about the secret to career fulfillment?

Elona Landau:

That it rests with you. That we have the power inside of ourselves to develop a life that we want.

And keeping that empowerment close to your heart, recognizing that you have the mindset and the skillset to achieve that, can feel inspiring and empowering.

Mac Prichard:

Next week, our guest will be Carly Richter.

She’s a senior recruiter and account manager with HR Annie Recruitment.

Carly helps companies and non-profits build strong, mission-aligned teams.

It’s natural to want to say the right thing when you talk to an employer.

But holding back key details about your job search can work against you.

Join us next Wednesday when Carly Richter and I talk about why transparency matters in a job interview.

Until next time, thanks for letting us help you find your dream job.

This show is produced by Mac’s List.

Susan Thornton-Hough schedules our guests and writes our newsletter. Lisa Kislingbury Anderson manages our social media.

Our sound engineer and editor is Matt Fiorillo. Dawn Mole creates our transcripts. And our music is by Freddy Trujillo.

This is Mac Prichard. See you next week.

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