How Dream Jobs Happen: Our Live 100th Episode!

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Transcript

Ben Forstag:

Good evening and welcome to a live taping of Find Your Dream Job—the podcast that helps you get hired, have the career you want, and make a difference in life.

Now, please put your hands together for tonight’s host and publisher of Mac’s List…Mac Prichard!

Mac Prichard:

Everybody, a big hand for Trujillo. Let’s hear if for Trujillo, led by Freddy Trujillo!! Aren’t they great?

Well, thanks everybody for joining us for the 100th episode of Find Your Dream Job. It’s so great to see so many friends of Mac’s List here. Because it’s our one hundredth episode, for regular listeners, we want you to know that we have a unique format tonight.

First we will hear from Mac’s List readers who will share their own job search success stories. Our friend Jenny Foss is here and she’s going test our career trivia knowledge. Yeah, and you’re going to like that. It’s a game show and it’s coming up in the second half of the show.

We’ve also got our own ‘Find Your Dream Job’ band. Again, let’s hear it for Trujillo!

I’m really thrilled about our special guest; it’s Jared Mees of Tender Loving Empire. Jared’s going to tell us how you can find your dream job or how to build your own. Plus, he’s going to share the fascinating story of Tender Loving Empire, which celebrates it’s tenth anniversary this year. Let’s hear it for Tender Loving Empire.

But first, as always, as regular listeners will remember,  let’s first check in with the Mac’s List team. Please welcome my co-hosts: Jessica Black, Ben Forstag, and Becky Thomas!

Okay, we’ve come a long way from the conference room down Fifth Avenue, haven’t we?

Jessica Black:

We sure have.

Mac Prichard:

Alright, this is our 100th episode, and it’s something I know we’re all very proud of. How do you all feel about this?

Jessica Black:

It’s really exciting.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah.

Jessica Black:

Yeah, thank you all for being here.

Becky Thomas:

It’s not bad. This is pretty amazing. I’m thinking about our usual podcast recording with our headphones and our ninety degrees because we can’t have the AC on in the conference room when we’re recording. And now we’re here.

Jessica Black:

Yeah, insider tip for everybody.

Becky Thomas:

That’s what normally happens during the podcast; we’re all just around a little table talking to each other, and now you’re all here watching us, so that’s different.

Ben Forstag:

And usually we have very copious notes that we’re working off of and here we’re just kind of ad libbing.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah.

Jessica Black:

Yeah.

Mac Prichard:

And we can always stop and start again, can’t we?

Becky Thomas:

Yeah, for sure.

Ben Forstag:

You mean we can’t do that here?

Becky Thomas:

We can do the clap thing.

Ben Forstag:

Uh oh.

Mac Prichard:

Well it is our 100th episode. Ben, I think you and I are the only ones who have been here for every episode. Is that right?

Ben Forstag:

So actually, I’ve only done ninety-nine episodes.

Mac Prichard:

Uh oh, what happened there? Were you on vacation?

Jessica Black:

Slacker

Ben Forstag:

Well you were so generous, Mac; you knew my second son was being born, so you let me take a week off.  I appreciate that.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah it’s the kind of employer we are. But I want to say, Ben is such a good guy, he actually offered to do a remote from the hospital waiting room and somehow your wife wouldn’t allow that.

Ben Forstag:

Yeah, I was going to call in, but with the screaming in the background, it just didn’t work.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah.

Jessica Black:

Probably for the best.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah. Probably.  Well Jessica, you’ve been on the team since October and you joined the show in January, didn’t you?

Jessica Black:

I have, it’s been great.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah. Now you get to run the soundboard.

Jessica Black:

I do.

Mac Prichard:

And you kind of like that don’t you?

Jessica Black:

I do. Just like tonight, I get to tell everybody what to do and make sure everything’s running smoothly behind the scenes.

Ben Forstag:

She’s drunk with power, Mac.

Becky Thomas:

She’s so good at it though.

Ben Forstag:

And she can pardon anyone she wants to.

Jessica Black:

And I do so on a regular basis.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah, well, you do it very well.

Becky, you’ve been on board for about three months, and we put you on the air on the second week of your job. How did that feel?

Becky Thomas:

Yeah, you threw me right into the frying pan, or wait, right into the fire.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah.

Becky Thomas:

Yeah, it was crazy. But it’s been great. I feel like you guys have been very welcoming to me and we’ve got such a great team. I’m just so excited.

Jessica Black:

It’s been great to have you.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah, and every week you answer a listener question. It’s a big job. How does it feel to take that on?

Becky Thomas:

Yeah, well when I first started I was like, “Well I was just a job seeker, I can’t answer their questions. I don’t know any more than them.” But I think I used that recent experience of being a job seeker to help me relate to people that are looking for jobs and are looking for advice, and I think that’s the biggest thing that we do on the podcast. Is just let people know that it’s okay and everybody has these struggles and we’re all working on it together.

Jessica Black:

We’ve all been there.

Becky Thomas:

Yeah. So, it’s been good.

Mac Prichard:

Alright, and I will say, Becky, you do your homework. I see you do the preparation and research those answers. You put a lot of thought into them.

Becky Thomas:

I try. You know.

Mac Prichard:

Well good.

Jessica Black:

Becky has a fan club.

Becky Thomas:

I know, a lot of my friends are here. Hey guys.

Mac Prichard:

You do.

Well we’ve had a lot of fun with the podcast, and we’ve had some hiccups along the way, haven’t we Ben?

Ben Forstag:

I don’t know what you’re talking about, Mac.

Mac Prichard:

Listeners may…regular listeners may recall an interview with Joshua Waldman. Which came maybe in episode ten or fifteen. How many times did we have to do that?

Ben Forstag:

I think five times we had to record the same interview.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah.

Ben Forstag:

Once because someone who shall not be named forgot to press record. Someone who shall not be named.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah. It was. Joshua was a real prince about it. If you’re starting your own show, and I know there are a number of podcasters in the audience, I think we’ve all had that experience, once or twice.

Ben Forstag:

Yeah, pro tip, turn the recorder on.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah.

Jessica Black:

Well actually, Mac, I have a question for you and Ben. As the most veteran podcasters on the team, since you’ve been doing it for about two years now, what has changed? What have you seen that has changed since day one?

Becky Thomas:

Episode one. Yeah.

Ben Forstag:

I’ll go first.

Mac Prichard:

Okay.

Ben Forstag:

So definitely the talent is better on the show.

Jessica Black:

You mean me and Becky?

Ben Forstag:

Yeah. So anyone who’s listened to the first few episodes, you can tell we’re pretty nervous. You can hear it in our voice that’s quivering when we talk too much. I think that went on for like the first ninety-nine episodes, or so.

Jessica Black:

We’re really hitting our stride in the one hundred right?

Ben Forstag:

Yeah, hitting our stride at one hundred. But as we’ve gone on I think we’ve gotten more confident. We know what we’re doing now, which is awesome. So yeah, I think the quality of the shows has just gotten better. Always good content, now better delivery.

Jessica Black:

Nice.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah, and for me, a lot of people say, “Oh the show’s so great, you do it so well”.  I remember I talked about doing this show for almost half a year and then we finally scheduled our first guest. I had gotten a list of equipment I needed to buy: microphones, and the soundboard you use, Jessica, and I had this list for about a month. Our first interview was on a Monday and on Sunday afternoon, I finally drove out to Guitar City to buy the equipment and I put it in my car thinking, “What in the world am I doing?” But here we are.

Ben Forstag:

The guy at Guitar City was thinking that too.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah.

Ben Forstag:

You know, when you first interviewed me, Mac, in our very first meeting, you said, “Oh yeah, I want to do a podcast.” And I kind of like to myself, rolled my eyes like, “Yeah, everyone wants to do a podcast. It’s never going to happen.” And then on my first day of working, you started talking about the podcast again, and I was like, “Oh man, we’re really doing this. What have I gotten myself into?” But yeah, again, it was really tough at first, but it’s gotten easier and better as it’s gone along.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah, well Becky, Jessica, what are your favorite moments or maybe your favorite guests on the show?

Becky Thomas:

I would say…I don’t know about a specific moment, but sometimes when we…so we have a guest expert for every episode, right? And the team talks about the topic before the guest comes on, and so we’re like chatting about best practices as we see them and then the expert comes on and they’re like saying the exact same thing that we said. I’m just like, “Okay, we do know what’s going on. We do know what we’re doing.” It’s just a cool, gratifying feeling.

Jessica Black:

Yeah it is really nice.

I guess I will say, I really like the, kind of similar, but I like the conversations that we all have as a group in those intros. Because we do a lot of banter, kind of like what we’re doing now, but we do a lot more talking over each other, and especially me and Becky.

Becky Thomas:

Well yeah, we relate. We relate.

Jessica Black:

Yeah. We relate and then Becky and I talk over Ben, and that’s always fun. He can’t get a word in edgewise, but it’s always really fun to just have the four of us in a room getting to have that rapport.

Ben Forstag:

My favorite part is definitely listening to my own voice in post production.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah.

Ben Forstag:

Yeah.

Jessica Black:

Narcissist.

Mac Prichard:

People can’t wait to have that experience, can they? It’s just so pleasurable.

Ben Forstag:

Yeah, anyone who’s ever had to listen to themselves knows that that’s not fun. I’d say probably my favorite part of the podcast is the stuff that never actually makes the show. Some of the outtakes.

Jessica Black:

We’re still trying to put together an outtake reel, but don’t hold your breath for that.

Becky Thomas:

Bloopers, yeah.

Ben Forstag:

Well over the last two years I’ve learned some things about Mac Prichard that he probably doesn’t want the wider world to know, including the infamous bus trip from Chicago to Des Moine.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah, that’s in the cut-out vault. We’ll leave it there for now.

Ben Forstag:

And anyone who buys a drink for me after this will hear the story.

Mac Prichard:

Okay.

Jessica Black:

Oh, collusion.

Mac Prichard:

Well terrific.

Ben Forstag:

And in other news, I’m looking for a job, so…

Mac Prichard:

Yeah. You’re in the right place.

Alright, well, the four of us co host the show and we’re on the air, but there’s another member of the Mac’s List team who keeps the bills paid and keeps the lights on, and that’s our Finance Manager, Anneka Winters! Please join me in welcoming Anneka to the stage.

Anneka Winters:

Thank you.

Mac Prichard:

Well Anneka, this is the first time you’ve ever been on the show. I also have to ask…have you ever listened to it?

Anneka Winters:

Yeah, tonight. I do listen when there’s a topic of interest, like how to start over in a new city. I’ve had to do that before. Or how millennials look for work. I’ve learned a lot from millennials.

Mac Prichard:

Good. Well it’s good to know that you’re adding to our downloads.

Anneka Winters:

All one hundred of them.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah, are there any other favorite episodes or moments that you’ve heard on the show that you’d like to share?

Anneka Winters:

Not specifically. I just like the camaraderie and this is my debut. I wish I were part of it a little more.

Jessica Black:

Maybe we’ll bring you on as an added feature sometimes.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah, we might have to work on a special guest expert feature and bring you on.

Jessica Black:

Yeah, you could be a finance expert.

Anneka Winters:

Oh. Yeah. I do know that.

Mac Prichard:

Well terrific. I want to thank all of you because I appreciate the talent, the commitment, that you bring to the show, and just your enthusiasm. And also your service to the Mac’s List communities. Everyone please join me in thanking the Mac’s List team.

Jessica Black:

Thank you, Mac.

Mac Prichard:

Alright, next up, we’ve got another segment for you, and we’re gonna try something we’ve done for a long time on our blog, and it’s completely new to the podcast.

One of the most rewarding parts of our work at Mac’s List, and all of us on the team have this privilege, is getting to hear job success stories; from the search, to the hire, and beyond. These are the people who come up to us, they tell us they found the job and we played some small part in it. Obviously they got the job, but it’s just wonderful to be part of that process.

I’m confident you’ll find these stories inspirational and meaningful, too. So let’s hear our first story.

She’s a business development professional. And she has vast experience with startups, logistics, and the green building sector.

She currently does business development for Fleet Logistics: it’s an online marketplace that connects shippers with freight forwarding companies and other service providers here in Portland.

Everyone, please welcome… Anna Walsh!

 

Anna, come on up.

 

Anna Walsh:

 

Hi, Mac.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Hey Anna, good to see you.

 

Anna Walsh:

 

Thanks for having me.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, it’s a pleasure. Now, before we dive into your story, can you tell us what you did before you landed this job?

 

Anna Walsh:

 

Yeah, absolutely. I actually recognize a few people in the audience tonight. I used to run the accelerator at Oregon State University. So I was big into startups, bit of a startup consultant. Talking to a lot of startups in Portland, Oregon, and before that I worked in Shanghai, in Cleen Tuck, and green building design in startups as well.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Okay. And I know you’ve been at Fleet Logistics since January, isn’t that right?

 

Anna Walsh:

 

That’s right.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

And that came after about a year of job searching.

 

Anna Walsh:

 

Yeah, it did. I started looking for a job because I was a startup consultant and dealing with startups everyday, but I missed working in startups. So I started looking again to get involved in startups, kind of at an operational level. So I started looking and it took me a full nine months conservatively to get a job in Portland, Oregon.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah. Was there something you did that you think helped make that happen?

 

Anna Walsh:

 

Well I looked at Mac’s List everyday, that’s what I did.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Right. Okay. That wasn’t a blat.

 

Anna Walsh:

 

In all seriousness, I did look at Mac’s List which is a great resource. I also used a lot of job search websites, like AngelList, and LinkedIn, and other networking events around the city to get noticed and to meet new people.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, and now you’ve been at Fleet Logistics for some time. One of the things that I know attracted you was that startup culture; you’ve talked about how you enjoy that. But you’ve learned new things too, in your time there. What makes this position a good fit for you, and why do you enjoy it?

 

Anna Walsh:

 

Yep, that’s a really good question. Does anyone here work in startups or in a startup? Yeah, there’s a few hands.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

I see some hands up.

 

Anna Walsh:

 

Okay, that’s good. As you know, startups are kind of a busy place especially depending on the size, and currently Fleet Logistics is about ten people. We’re expanding, so we’re going to double our team in the next sixth months, so that’s really exciting. Through a new venture round.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Congratulations.

 

Anna Walsh:

 

Thank you.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah. That’s a big deal.

 

Anna Walsh:

 

Yeah. It’s really exciting. It’s a good fit for me personally, this job, because I’m a multi-tasker. I’m used to wearing a lot of hats at any given position but in the startup and as an operational managers, or part of a marketplace, building a marketplace in our current company, you have to do everything. I was just telling my sister that today, I cut checks, and yesterday I answered phone calls, and the day before that I’m sure I did something very different. So wearing a lot of hats and being in charge of a lot of things you never thought you were going to be in charge of, is a big part of startup culture especially in my current position.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

I can tell you enjoy it. You really light up when you talk about it.

 

Anna Walsh:

 

Thanks, Mac.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Well thank you, Anna.

 

Now we’re going to turn to our next guest. What does it take to find a job you love? Is it

hard work? Digging in deep to examine what you truly want?

 

Our next guest spent three years in Thailand before he called Portland home. He’s a content writer at the digital agency, Webfor. Everyone, please give a big Portland welcome to…Harris Newman!

 

Harris, come on up.

 

Welcome to the stage, Harris.

 

Harris Newman:

 

Thank you.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, now you wrote a blog post for us, as did Anna and our next guest, about your job search  success story. You mentioned in that post that your goal in life was “to meet the world’s most interesting people and share their stories.” So tell us about that, Harris.

 

Harris Newman:

 

Sure. That was kind of the first thing that I knew I wanted out of life, or at least when I was looking for work.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Sure.

 

Harris Newman:

 

And it’s because I would have conversations with people and whenever there was one that kind of struck me in a certain way, or stimulated me in a way, I would see the world a little differently after that conversation, than before. It would really just give me a euphoric feeling, so I said, “I want to do as much of that in my life as possible. I want to meet those people, I want to be surrounded by them, and then I want to share their story with the world.”

 

Mac Prichard:

 

That’s terrific. I imagine at Webfor you get to do that, and how’s that helping to accomplish your goal? The work you have now?

 

Harris Newman:

 

Webfor has been great for me. It was my first writing role also, so I have definitely refined the craft there. But a core part of my role there is to meet with our clients and discover what makes them compelling. What makes them interesting. And that’s kind of what I want my life goal to be also, so it’s also a skill that I didn’t know I wanted to pursue. Didn’t know I enjoyed doing, and that was really cool, for that to be revealed to me, and it’s nice to practice it, because that’s going to get me where I want to be.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

That’s terrific. You know, in your blog post you mentioned that you struggled with your job search, and many of us do. I’ve been through a couple long ones myself. In part, you said you struggled because you were reaching “too broadly.” How did you get clear about your goals, Harris?

 

Harris Newman:

 

I was reaching really broadly because I didn’t have much professional experience when I started my job search, outside of teaching in Thailand, which is not as marketable as I thought it might have been. And I was really just stuck in my own head. Everyone I talked to, would be like, “Just pick something.” And that was hard because I didn’t want to be wrong, and I was like, “I don’t want to waste time pursuing something I don’t want to do.”

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Right.

 

Harris Newman:

 

So anyway, I did. I picked something. I said, “I’m going to do storytelling.” I didn’t even know what that really meant, and someone said, “Oh you should do branding.” And then I talked to a branding person and he said, “Oh you should do marketing.” I said, “Oh marketing sounds cool.” And then that’s how I found this work. But I realized it’s not about being right or wrong when you pick something, it’s about being in motion, and that’s what brings activity and momentum.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, I think that’s very smart. A lot of people, and I certainly had this experience early in my career, we get paralyzed because there’s so many choices and you just…before this at Webfor, you worked in the service industry. What’s it been like to change sectors?

 

Harris Newman:

 

It took awhile, like you said, and it’s not easy because you’re starting from scratch. I’d ask people, “How do you break into this industry?” And I’m sure changing industries is different for everyone, but there’s always steps, there’s always a process to it. It might seem really daunting, and that’s how it felt for me. A friend of mine said, “Make a plan, and execute it.” Just kind of like chunk it out, and also, once I had that plan I was really impatient. I was like, “No, I want it to happen. I know what I need to do.” And that wasn’t the best thing for me; I really needed to sort of relax into it, and that’s what I would tell people. Enjoy it.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Terrific. That’s great advice. Thank you, Harris.

 

Harris Newman:

 

You’re welcome.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Let’s move on to our next story.

Patience and persistence, these  are key virtues for anyone’s job search. Our next guest attributes both to landing her dream job.

 

She’s a community organizer, journalist, and social media enthusiast. And she’s energized by activism, adventures, and events.

 

Please join me in welcoming Oregon native and  long-time friend of Mac’s List…Lisa Kislingbury-Anderson!

 

Lisa, come on up.

 

Lisa Kislingbury-Anderson:

 

Hi Mac, it’s nice to see you. Thanks for having me.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Good to see you. Yeah, I appreciate you coming and you actually came to our very first Mac’s List event. I don’t know if you remember that?

 

Lisa Kislingbury-Anderson:

 

I do remember that. Lucky Lab, right?

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, Lucky Lab on Hawthorne.

 

Lisa Kislingbury-Anderson:

 

Yeah.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, and you had those great red converse high tops.

 

Lisa Kislingbury-Anderson:

 

Yeah, that’s right.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, and you, two years later, you got a job, and you shared that story on the Mac’s List blog. So what does it feel to be a part of the Mac’s List community, Lisa?

 

Lisa Kislingbury-Anderson:

 

I’ve always found this community to be so energizing and authentic. I’ve really appreciated it from when I was first finding my way in Portland. And trying to find my first steps and getting career development, up until now. It’s just been chock full of inspiration and ideas and lots of interesting people.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, like me, I think you actually enjoy going to networking events, don’t you?

 

Lisa Kislingbury-Anderson:

 

I do, absolutely. Most recently we were both at the World Domination Summit which was a wonderful event here in Portland.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, a couple WDSers out there.

 

Lisa Kislingbury-Anderson:

 

Lot’s of inspiration. I always find in terms of my career development, that’s the most lovely and enjoyable part, getting out into the community and networking.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, now when you shared your story two years ago, you had just started a position at World Pulse, and it’s a terrific local nonprofit. It  increases the global voice and leadership of women around the world. At the time, you were the Volunteer Coordinator.

 

Lisa Kislingbury-Anderson:

 

Yes.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, and now, I understand recently World Pulse had to let several people go, including yourself.  I’m sorry to hear that because I’ve been laid off myself twice, and it’s never easy.

 

Lisa Kislingbury-Anderson:

 

Thanks so much.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, so I know when you shared your story one of the things that you attributed to your success in landing a job there was working as a volunteer, as a volunteer editorial mentor. Can you tell us more about that?

 

Lisa Kislingbury-Anderson:

 

So at the time I was volunteering at World Pulse, I was working as a community newspaper reporter, which was a wonderful part of my career. But I was starting to feel the itch to do something new. So having this volunteer outlet and getting to know this organization on a deeper level was such a wonderful way to become more involved and also to showcase my communications skills and professional skill set. So it was a great inroad to getting my role there eventually.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Well thanks for sharing that. I’m confident that the connections you made at World Pulse and elsewhere in the community are going to help you find your next position very quickly.

 

Lisa Kislingbury-Anderson:

 

Thank you so much.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Do you have any tips for people about how to stay resilient in a job search, Lisa? Because a lot of us go through that process and it takes time often.

 

Lisa Kislingbury-Anderson:

 

Sure. I think one thing I’ve really found is to focus on being in community with fellow job seekers as opposed to feeling competitive. I think that’s been huge and I think that when you are kind and approachable and supportive of others, that’s going to come back to you. I also think it’s so important to carve out time to have fun and be creative, however that looks for you. Whether it is getting outdoors, doing something artsy, or making a delicious meal. Lastly, I would say that I think it’s important to create external accountability. I know for me that’s really important. So I have a group that I get together with on a weekly basis and we exchange resources and ideas, and hold each other accountable, which is lovely.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Those are great tips. Harris and Anna, are there job hunting tips you’d like to share from your searches with our listeners and the audience?

 

Harris Newman:

 

I might have said it before, I kind of blacked out…. But….

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Jessica is going to edit that out. She’s got your back.

 

Harris Newman:

 

Sorry about that.

 

Yeah, I wanted to reiterate those three words, “Relax into it.” You want to rush it along and it’s really uncomfortable, but there’s a lot happening at that time that you might not even be aware of and that’s a really critical and important time. So yeah, embrace it. Enjoy it.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Good advice. Anna, what would you add?

 

Anna Walsh:

 

You know, Portland especially, and I’m sure other communities since Mac’s List is listened to around the country, but Portland especially has a lot of opportunities for you to get to network and learn a skill, meet a mentor, go out and do something new. For me that was more important than going and sitting behind a computer, submitting job applications. I think I got a lot more traction going out and meeting people. I think that probably most people would agree that that’s how you get a job. You volunteer, you network, you listen to good media, and then you get it done.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Well those are great tips from all three of you, and I want to say thank you for sharing your stories, both on our blog and here with our audience tonight.

 

Everybody, please join me in thanking  Lisa, Harris and Anna !

 

———————

 

So, that’s the first half of our show, our 100th episode.

 

Now, we’re going to hear more from Trujillo, led by Freddy Trujillo! We’re going to take a brief break, and when we return, you’re going to hear from our special guests, Jared Mees from Tender Loving Empire and Jenny Foss from Job Jenny.

 

Everybody, let’s welcome Trujillo, led by Freddy Trujillo.

 

Ben Forstag:

 

Hello, Portland! Welcome back to Find Your Dream Job!!

 

Now, please give another big hand for your host and publisher of Mac’s List, and the sultan of the v-neck sweater…Mac Prichard!

 

Mac Prichard:

 

What do you say? Let’s give it up for Trujillo led by Freddy Trujillo!

 

Freddy, I want to invite you over here.You and I haven’t actually met until tonight, although you contributed the theme song for our show.

 

Freddy Trujillo:

 

That’s true. Thanks to your wife.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, because my wife, Kris, and you have worked together on different projects over the years.

 

Freddy Trujillo:

 

Yeah, she saw my band called Caguama that I used to have, years ago, and she works in publishing so she got us in a spanish textbook.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

She did.

 

Freddy Trujillo:

 

Yeah, which is the coolest thing ever in my whole music career, to get in a spanish textbook. At college level even.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, it’s a great credit and I’ve got to say, with Kris and I, she’s definitely the ‘cool’ one. That’s how I came to know you. So when we were thinking about a theme song for the podcast, we knew we wanted something that was unique and local, and Kris and I both have a passion for that kind of music and so we instantly thought of you.

 

Freddy Trujillo:

 

It’s because of the Chi-cha.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, now we’re big fans of the Chi-cha

 

Freddy Trujillo:

 

That’s Peruvian psychedelic music from the sixties, so…

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, when Texico came to Peru in the sixties, these oil engineers from California and Texas, brought the Ventures and other surf guitar sounds down to Peru, and then there was this kind of a cultural mashup. But it’s a great sound.

 

Freddy Trujillo:

 

Yeah, cool organs.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, it’s definitely worth checking out. Now, music… is that your full-time gig? Because this is a podcast about jobs so I’ve got to ask you.

 

Freddy Trujillo:

 

It hasn’t been for a while. It was through my twenties. Through the years, I moved to Oregon  after a bad record deal, and came up here. I started going to school, and then I got sucked back into the music business in the late nineties with a guy that was in The Black Crows. Another record deal gone bad, so it’s a tough racket. But I’ve finished college and I ended up  kind of right back where I was, working for a job called CD Baby, and they were kind enough to actually keep my music career kind of going.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Good.

 

Freddy Trujillo:

 

You know, I still make lots of records. And yeah.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Well congratulations. That’s a great trip to make.

 

Freddy Trujillo:

 

Yeah.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

And I’m glad you get to play and tour.

 

Freddy Trujillo:

 

Yeah, and I’m lucky to have CD Baby as a job, especially for insurance.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah. We all struggle with that, don’t we, Freddie?

 

Freddy Trujillo:

 

I have kids, you know, and it’s been great.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Well congratulations. Well, I appreciate you contributing our theme song and joining us tonight. I know we’re going to hear some more from you and the band.

 

Freddy Trujillo:

 

Cool.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Everybody, let’s hear it for Freddy Trujillo, & Trujillo!!

 

Freddy Trujillo:

 

Thank you.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Well, I’m thrilled to introduce tonight’s featured guest.

 

He’s a father, a small business owner, and a songwriter. And he recently released his fourth studio album. It’s called,  “Life is Long.” He and his wife, Brianne, founded and run the art store and record label, Tender Loving Empire.

 

Everyone, please welcome…Jared Mees!

Jared, come on up.

 

Thanks for being on the show.

 

Jared Mees:

 

Thanks a lot for having me.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, it’s a pleasure. Now Jared, music is a huge part of your life obviously. So I’ve got to ask, what was your first concert?

Jared Mees:

 

Well it’s a band that nobody here has heard of called Morella’s Forest.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Oh wait, we have one fan over there.

 

Jared Mees:

 

Oh great, wonderful. I was friends with some people that raised a bunch of money to fly this band out from Ohio to my small town, called Pagosa Springs, Colorado. It was in the back of a bike shop, and we borrowed a bunch of gear from friends, and we flew this band out and put them up in a hotel.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

You flew the band out?

 

Jared Mees:

 

Yeah, just to have the first concert, because we were so far from any real culture. So I thought I had died and gone to Heaven.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

That’s great, and was there one thing about that night you especially remember?

 

Jared Mees:

 

I remember there were like ten people and we were all dancing around and it was just like the most magical experience. Yeah. Thank you for asking about that.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah. Well I have to share, my first concert was way back in the early 1970’s with Harry Chapin. So anybody remember, Taxi? Cat’s In The Cradle? Okay, I’m seeing some hands out there. You remember Cat’s In The Cradle?

 

Jared Mees:

 

“Little boy blue and the man in the moon.”

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah. Okay. And of course it is a song about a man that puts his career before his family and regrets that choice. So perfect song and first concert for someone who was going to create a job board.

 

Jared Mees:

 

It’s such a sad song.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, it is a sad song. But this is a happy show so…speaking of happiness, you guys had a big milestone at Tender Loving Empire. It’s your 10th anniversary, isn’t that great? Let’s hear it for Tender Loving Empire.

 

Jared Mees:

 

Thank you.

 

Mac Prichard:

So, I know our listeners and audience here tonight would love to hear how you got started. When we spoke, a couple of weeks ago, when you agreed to come on the show, you said that you and your wife, Brianne, were working in service industry jobs here in Portland, but what you really wanted to do was focus on your music and your art. So, tell us how you made that happen.

 

Jared Mees:

 

Yeah, it’s all very hazy because it all happened very naturally, but we ultimately just knew a lot of really talented artists, a lot of really talented musicians, people who were making jewerly, people who were screen printing prints, making comics, writing novels, and poets. We were just drunk on the spirit of creativity and we had just moved from Los Angeles where there wasn’t a whole lot of community for that, but we were just overwhelmed with Portland’s community. It was like getting shot out of a cannon and we arrived here and were just overwhelmed with the number of people that we thought were so talented, but weren’t really doing anything with their music. They would record a record that was just beautiful and then they would burn a CD and just hand it to a couple friends at a party and it would be done. That was like a travesty, it was unacceptable.

 

So we started doing our own silk screening and we silk screened a friend’s… some covers for a friend’s novel. We glued them all together, we sold them on a website, and we called it all Tender Loving Empire, which I can talk about later. But there was this very natural, “No, we’re going to do this for you, it’s going to happen.” And there was just a really great community there.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Was there a moment, Jared, that inspired you and Brianne to do that? Because you began doing the silk screening and helping artists, But was there one moment that was really a catalyst?

 

Jared Mees:

 

I would say that it was a series of moments that just kind of built on each other.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Okay, yeah.

 

Jared Mees:

 

But it was going out pretty much every night and seeing music or seeing art, or going to one thing after another after another, and it was kind of a relentless schedule, but we loved every minute of it.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

You mentioned when we spoke that both you and Brianne come from families that have business owners… your parents on both sides. How did that inform your approach to Tender Loving Empire?

 

Jared Mees:

 

You know, I wish it had informed it more.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

I wish I’d gotten an MBA instead of an MPA.

 

Jared Mees:

 

Right. Exactly. I think the main thing it did was teach us tenacity, that you just do it and do it and do it, and then eventually you have a business. The whole idea of giving up was never really something that crossed our minds, and I realize that was because that’s what we learned from our family. Both of our families have small businesses. We didn’t realize that until recently, like, “Wow, we’re both from small businesses.”

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah.

 

Jared Mees:

 

It’s no wonder that we did this.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, well how did that transition go for the two of you, moving from working for other people to running your own shop?

 

Jared Mees:

 

The transition was poor.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Tell us more about that.

 

Jared Mees:

 

We were working our service industry jobs while we opened the first shop. It was working from ten to six at the store and then Brianne would go to work from seven to two in the morning, and then I would start back up. We found the schedule the other day from when we opened, and it was like, “Monday-Brianne, Tuesday-Jared, Wednesday-Jared and Brianne, Thursday…” you know, it was just us.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, it was unrelenting.

 

Jared Mees:

 

Yeah, and it was hard.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah.

 

Jared Mees:

 

It was difficult, but it was also great. It was some of the greatest times in my life.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Were there moments when you two thought about throwing in the towel?

 

Jared Mees:

 

Yeah, 2009 was a bad year.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

That was a tough year for everybody, wasn’t it?

 

Jared Mees:

 

Yeah, the biggest recession in my lifetime, and…all our lifetimes…maybe? It was a tough year and the whole time we burned through two years of savings at that point. We weren’t making any money. It was a struggle. We had bands screwing us on the record label, it was a difficult time. I famously said in an interview in 2007 that I didn’t really want to silkscreen things for soccer teams and stuff. I was just scrounging for the soccer teams’ silk screening jobs. I could not find the soccer teams fast enough.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Okay, so you would get those jobs?

 

Jared Mees:

 

Oh yeah, I got them. I silkscreened five thousand orange bandanas for OSU. That got us through a lot of 2009.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, well sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do, don’t you?

 

Jared Mees:

 

Yeah, but we got through it, so yeah, it’s good.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Good. What are you most proud of, you and Brianne, of what you have accomplished at Tender Loving Empire?

 

Jared Mees:

 

I mean, it goes back to the artist. We set out to make artists have a good life and have a better time making their art and being able to make a living doing their art. There are artists today that I am proud to say that they were one person operations and they now have a couple of employees. They pay their rent from checks that we write them because they make amazing art and we sell that amazing art. That’s what we set out to do. If we keep doing that then I think we’ll keep being successful. Ultimately just being able to make this artist community…further out the artist community, that’s been the goal and I think we’ve done a good job with that so far.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, that’s a great goal. Tell us about the name Tender Loving Empire. It’s unusual and intriguing. What’s the story behind it?

 

Jared Mees:

 

We just liked the idea of the oxymoron of…the juxtaposition of words. Most empires aren’t tender and loving, and there’s no reason that they shouldn’t be. When I am king they will all be that. So.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

So when you fully become an emperor. Yeah. Well you have several stores in the Portland Metropolitan area and you just opened one at the Portland airport. Congratulations. Yeah, it’s a big milestone.

 

You employ forty people, so you see a lot of applicants. What makes the successful job applicant stand out, Jared?

 

Jared Mees:

 

Wow, in the end, every person we’ve hired has written an amazing cover letter. They have researched who we are, they’ve been to our stores. We don’t hire people who are not just as passionate about what we’re doing as we are. Once you get in and you’re working at TLE and you’re not at that level and you’re not as passionate as everybody else, it just doesn’t work and we’ve learned that the hard way. Not everybody who has started with us stays with us, but ultimately we look for people who are in this with their whole body and soul like we are.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

And when you think about the job applicants you’ve met, what advice do you have for people who are looking for work, not just with your company, but in general? Because you meet so many people…to position themselves as a successful candidate for a job?

 

Jared Mees:

 

I would say that to be a successful candidate, you really just need to have been doing the thing outside of the job that you’re trying to get hired for. What I mean by that is, if you want to do  something, you should be doing it prior to starting at this job. Like one of the people we just hired for marketing, she’s been doing marketing for her own little concert promotion company totally separately, not getting paid, by herself. I had taken note of that and called her up and said, “You could do that here.” And she wasn’t even really trying to get hired with us but she’s done great, and she’s now the heart and soul of our company in a lot of ways. So I think doing things extracurricularly that you would like to do professionally is maybe a good way to sum that up.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, so look for ways to sharpen your skills outside of the workplace and follow the things that you get excited about.

 

Jared Mees:

 

Absolutely.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Alright. Now, so many of our listeners I think, when they hear your story, they’re going to identify with you and your wife, Brianne because they want to do work that taps into their creativity and their passion. So Jared, what piece of wisdom do you have for people who want to do that? What would you share with our listeners?

 

Jared Mees:

 

Well first off I would say, don’t be lured in by the myth of the entrepreneur. Not everyone should be an entrepreneur.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, I agree.

 

Jared Mees:

 

And I mean that straight faced, there’s a lot of smoke and mirrors to the whole idea of being an entrepreneur. I think that the companies out there are only as good as all the people that work there, and not everyone can or should be an entrepreneur. So first of all, don’t get sucked in that you have to start your own business, or do your own thing. I would say that the people who work at the businesses make the businesses. I would say, be confident in that. Then I would also say really look inside at what you want and who you are, and really do some soul searching for what you stand for, what type of person you want to be and let that inform the jobs that you pursue. Because ultimately, if you don’t know that then you will just drift from place to place. But if you can really dive deep into who you are and what you want, I think you will ultimately apply for and then ultimately get the jobs that really will be meaningful to you. Because I think that’s what it’s all about right? It’s about meaningful work.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah.

 

Jared Mees:

 

It’s about spending the precious days that we have doing something that actually matters to us and that we can actually look back on and be proud. I’m kind of rambling…but.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

No, I think what you’re saying is what so many people want, which is work with purpose and meaning, and many of us struggle with finding it. I think your story shows one way of how to accomplish that, and I think what you’re sharing is very wise and supports that.

 

Jared Mees:

 

Yeah. I just want to see people succeed and I want to see people do the thing that they love for a living. I think it’s possible to have spent your time on this earth doing meaningful work.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Well thank you, Jared. It’s such a pleasure to have you on the show. Congratulations again on your tenth anniversary.

 

Jared Mees:

 

Thanks.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

And congratulations to you and Brianne on your second child. Just three weeks ago.

 

Jared Mees:

 

Thank you. Thanks a lot.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Everybody, another round for Jared Mees.

 

Well Jared’s story, it’s really a classic job hero’s journey: He and his wife Brianne came to Portland from Los Angeles. They took service jobs. Did creative work on nights and weekends.

 

But what they really wanted was to make their creative life their career. And they figured out how to make it happen.

 

So the Tender Loving Empire story reminds me of so many job seekers I meet that all of us do on the Mac’s List team. We talk to people who crave work with purpose and meaning just as Jared was talking about. Now some, like Jared and Brianne, start their own companies but others look for great companies to join.

 

Which leads us to tonight’s final guest…

 

Whether you’re in between work and looking for that next gig or thinking about making the leap to a new career, you’re going to love her proven job-hunting tips.

 

A career strategist, recruiter, and the voice of the popular career blog, JobJenny.com…a big Portland welcome please for… Jenny Foss!

 

Jenny, pleasure to have you on the show.

 

Jenny Foss:

 

Thank you. Thank you, Mac. It’s always good to be a part of…really anything you do, so I was so glad when you called to invite me.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah. Well we’re going to continue the concert theme, I talked about Harry Chapin.

 

Jenny Foss:

 

Oh great. Karaoke, everybody.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

And Jared shared how he airlifted a band all the way from Ohio to his bike shop. What was your first concert?

 

Jenny Foss:

 

Okay, this is going to date me a little bit. I’m going to give you the one my parents dragged me to, and then the one I voluntarily went to. Number one, dragged; Captain & Tennille at the Michigan State Fair.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Can we get you to sing a lyric or two?

 

Jenny Foss:

 

No you cannot.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Okay.

 

Jenny Foss:

 

And Pat Benatar was the first exciting, in my teens, concert that I considered the real concert.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Oh, yeah I think we all have that first concert somewhere in our background.

 

Jenny Foss:

 

And it was like three miles from my house. I was like, “This can’t even count.” But… yeah, my parents got a kick out of it, so it was good.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

You’ve been on  several episodes of our show, both as a guest expert but also as a co-host.

 

Jenny Foss:

 

Yes. I’ve worn both hats. That’s a lot of pressure you guys have, being co-host.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah. What have you enjoyed most about your time on the show?

 

Jenny Foss:

 

You know… virtually everything first of all, Mac. But I think the thing that really grabs me about what you’re doing with the podcast and certainly the time I’ve spent with you is, you just do such a good job of making it  approachable and genuine and helping with the heart about what you’re doing. I do know that for so many people this is a stressful, confusing, overwhelming endeavor. I have really just enjoyed the vibe that comes along with your podcast and it’s really made me proud to be a part of it.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah. Well thank you, we’re proud to have you on the show. My co-hosts are a big part of that vibe too, so I’m grateful for their contribution.

 

Jenny Foss:

 

You guys are the vibe.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah. You know, you and I talked a couple weeks ago before, about this interview, and  you said “nobody likes to go through a job search.” And I certainly can remember that when I had that experience looking for work, and I imagine many of our listeners can identify with that too. So Jenny, when you help people, what are some of your goals in helping job seekers?

 

Jenny Foss:

 

I think a big goal is to make the virtually unenjoyable at the very least survivable, but our hope is to make it enjoyable. So many people absolutely abhor a job search, for a lot of good reasons, so we really work hard to make this something that’s not as distasteful as many people think it’s going to be.

 

But another big goal that we have is to help people get untangled and kind of pointed in the right direction. Because a lot of times when you’re all tangled up in a big ball, it’s kind of hard to figure out which threads to pull out first and start getting that momentum that will ultimately help you move forward. However you define that.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah. A lot of people do get stuck, either being overwhelmed by choices or not knowing where to start.

 

Jenny Foss:

 

Not knowing where to start, yeah. If you look at it in a big ball, it’s no wonder it’s scary and confusing, and largely offensive. If you can figure out a way to do just one thing at a time, or a couple things at a time, that generally builds the momentum that’s really going to make you feel a lot better about it.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Well you run a successful career coaching business now. What did you do before JobJenny.com?

 

Jenny Foss:

 

Well I’ve had an interesting career path. I started as a journalist out of college and then was lured into PR and marketing. I’m not going to lie, somewhat was driven by the potential money in the corporate world. I was really on a trajectory to move into a senior leadership role in marketing management and had kind of a realization that I was in absolutely the wrong place. So that’s kind of an uncomfortable place to be because if you’re in the wrong place and you’ve invested a lot of time getting there, you don’t really know what to do. I was very fortunate because I had a friend who co-owned a recruiting agency, and for many months he bribed me, cajoled me, and convinced me to drop everything and become a recruiter. And I took a fifty-thousand dollar pay cut to learn an entirely different field and from there it all evolved to what is ultimately JobJenny.com.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Well congratulations.

 

Jenny Foss:

 

Thanks. Nobody probably would have congratulated me at that moment. My parents thought I was crazy.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, I think we’ve all had that experience with our parents at different times.

 

Jenny Foss:

 

It all worked out.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, well you had some challenges along the way. What are some of the things that you wish you’d done differently when you think back about the launch of your firm and your business?

 

Jenny Foss:

 

Well an interesting thing about JobJenny.com is, it was never intended to be my main vocation. I was working as a recruiter and I was running a small recruiting agency in 2008, 2009…we all remember that time. Many of us, I’m sure, do. And the economy dropped out and so I was getting a lot of calls and emails from people who were very panicked about being laid off or “I need you to help me with my resume.” “I need a job.” And it was very hard because at the time I was a single mom, and the only way I would make money as a recruiter was by filling the open positions that my clients had. So even though my heart was very touched by these people who needed help, it really didn’t make a lot of business sense to spend a lot of time there. So that was what kind of gave me the idea, “Boy wouldn’t it be nice if we created this other place where job seekers could come and go. They could get help and motivation…and oh, by the way, if they wanted to hire me to do any one on one work, we would have an easy way to run them through.” Little did I know that that little side job would quickly become what today is http://www.jobjenny.com/. Primarily what I do for a living today, is through that business.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah, well congratulations to you.

 

Jenny Foss:

 

I was an accidental entrepreneur in some ways.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Well let’s talk about job hunting for a moment. When you and I spoke, you talked about the importance of marketing and it’s a crucial part of what you call your trifecta. Can you tell us more about that? For job seekers.

 

Jenny Foss:

 

Sure, yes. My career background created an interesting trifecta that I couldn’t have attempted if I tried. But I have incredibly strong writing skills. I was a journalist through college and in my early career, and then I shifted into marketing. So I learned the principles of marketing and engaging your audience. Then I shifted into recruiting, so I learned what hiring managers are looking for. I learned how the game of job search works, and it quite frankly, is a game. It’s not a great game in a lot of ways. So when I founded JobJenny, I realized a year or two in that, “Oh my gosh, the reason I’m good at what I do here is because I have strong writing skills, I know marketing, and everything you do as a job seeker is marketing your professional capabilities, and I know how the game of recruiting works.” So it has given me an advantage, I think. Whoever knew that all my little job changes would end up being so advantageous for what I do today. So I am certainly grateful for that. I couldn’t have planned it if I tried.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Well great. So for job seekers out there, they should think about how the system works, they should focus on writing, and recognize the importance of marketing.

 

Jenny Foss:

 

Well I think also, if you have a divergent career path, which a lot of people do, do not panic. Because there could be a culmination of all your career capital that could be incredibly advantageous if you figure out where that intersection is. My intersection presented itself but spending time thinking about where that all might intersect would be really beneficial, I think.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Good. Well Jenny, I really appreciate your insights. Thank you for sharing your story.

 

Jenny Foss:

 

No, thank you.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Yeah. Please everybody, let’s hear it for Job Jenny.

 

So don’t go away Jenny. We have our final segment.

 

Jenny Foss:

 

Okay.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

We’re going to wrap up tonight’s live podcast after this. So to celebrate our 100th episode, and to give job seekers out there even more powerful tools they can use to find their dream jobs, we’ve created a new game. It’s called Left Turn, Right Turn, because the road to finding your dream job is different for everyone.

 

So, to help us with this game, please welcome back to the stage Ben Forstag and Trujillo led by Freddie Trujillo!

 

Here’s how the game works and this involves you all.  I’m going to ask a series of questions to Ben and Jenny—some are multiple-choice, others are open-ended. And Jessica, is it true, we’ve got some people in the audience ready with questions?

 

Jessica Black:

 

We do.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Alright. So, after Ben and Jenny answer, you all are going to shout out which turn you would rather take. Remember, left turn or right turn.

 

So Ben, you ready?

 

Ben Forstag:

 

I was born ready, Mac.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Okay. Jenny, how about you?

 

Ben Forstag:

 

Wait, can I say something first, Mac?

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Please.

 

Ben Forstag:

 

Jenny Foss, love will keep us together.

 

Jenny Foss:

 

What’s my response? “Oh I will. I will.” Oh yeah, “Love is a battlefield.”

 

Mac Prichard:

 

So basically, you’re telling me you’re the Captain.

 

Jenny Foss:

 

Ben, you’re not old enough to know Captain & Tennille.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Okay, so, I’m assuming you’re ready, because he is.

 

Jenny Foss:

 

He started the high jinx. I am ready. I have been here ready.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Okay, so here’s the test question, and audience, pay attention.

 

Ben, what’s the best way to stand out at a networking event?

 

Ben Forstag:

 

So, you go to networking events because you want to meet people to get a job. So I think the best thing you can do is go out there and hand out as many business cards as you can. You don’t even need to talk to people, or look them in the eye, just shove your business card right into their hand.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Are you throwing them in the air too? Is it like confetti?

 

Ben Forstag:

 

You’re like making it rain, Mac.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Oh my gosh. Okay. So…just make it rain with business cards. So that’s left turn.

 

Right turn – Jenny, what do you think?

 

Jenny Foss:

 

I think Ben needs a t-shirt gun for the business cards. It’ll be more efficient. No, no no. I insist that you go in with an open mind, but you also go in with a plan of what you would love to accomplish, or people you would love to meet at the event. Then go in and ask genuine, curious questions. No sense showing up if you don’t think you have it in you to actually be a part of a conversation. So don’t talk at people, talk with people, and know that this is probably as challenging for them as it is for you. So everybody can rest in that reality that we’re all in it together.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Alright.

 

Ben Forstag:

 

No offense Jenny, but my way seems a whole lot easier.

 

Jenny Foss:

 

I’m going to throw away your business card, Ben.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Alright. So we’ve got two choices here. Confetti or connect, plan ahead, and actually have a conversation. So what do you say audience? On the count of three, left turn or right turn?

 

ONE, TWO, THREE!

 

Audience:

 

Right turn!

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Alright, sounds like right turn.

 

Alright, So we’re going to move on.

 

Multiple-choice question: Which social media app is the most useful for career-building? Is it:

 

  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • SnapChat or
  • Pokémon Go?

 

Ben?

 

Ben Forstag:

 

Well, I know you think I’m going to say Pokemon Go and make a joke out of this.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Okay. No, you’re a very serious fellow.

 

Ben Forstag:

 

I am actually going to say SnapChat.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Tell me more.

 

Ben Forstag:

 

Because when you send the wrong message to the wrong person, which you inevitably will, it deletes itself.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Alright, I can see a virtue to that. Jenny, is it one of these four social media apps, or maybe there’s another choice?

 

Jenny Foss:

 

I don’t want to argue with you Mac, because I realize that you are an expert, but I’m going to go off the grid.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Oh my gosh.

 

Jenny Foss:

 

If I have to choose among those, I’m going to pick Twitter. If I can go off the grid I’m going to choose LinkedIn. Above and beyond and far away, it is the number one resource for professional networking and job searching that we have available today as a professionals. Love it or not, it’s LinkedIn.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Alright.

 

Ben Forstag:

 

Wait, wait, wait. I didn’t know you could pick something not in the choices.

 

Jenny Foss:

 

It’s like the secret menu at Starbucks.

 

Ben Forstag:

 

I’m changing my answer.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Alright.

 

Ben Forstag:

 

Tinder!

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Okay, strategy move.

 

I’m just waiting for the band to kick in here. Audience? Your vote. THREE, TWO, ONE! Left turn or right turn?

 

Audience:

 

Right turn!

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Right turn. Okay, looks like Tinder’s going down in flames. Sorry. Let’s move on.

 

Another multiple choice: What is the best workplace movie of all time? Is it… think carefully…

 

  • Office Space
  • 9 to 5
  • Horrible Bosses or…
  • Tootsie?

 

Ben Forstag:

 

Tootsie!

 

Jenny Foss:

 

Office Space. “He’s a real go getter, with upper management written all over him.”

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Alright, are we ready audience? On the count of three, ONE, TWO, THREE! What do you say?

 

Ben Forstag:

 

Tootsie!

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Okay, here’s an open-ended question: Ben, you’re a development professional. You just found your dream job on Mac’s List. The posting says you need to send a cover letter by email. To get the hiring manager’s attention, what’s your awesome subject line?

 

Ben Forstag:

 

So for this one, I’m going to channel the inner ‘id’ of every job seeker.

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Alright, go to the dark place.

 

Ben Forstag:

 

And I write something like, “Come on already, give me a friggin’ job!”

 

Mac Prichard:

 

Alright, that’s direct. Jenny?

 

Jenny Foss:

I’m going to give two answers, because let’s be honest, Ben just gave two answers for the social media channel.

If you have a connection somehow, into that organization, I would say, “Development officer position, referred by Ben Forstag.” So if you’ve got an in, make that clear in your subject line.

Mac Prichard:

Okay.

Jenny Foss:

If not, I would say, “Development officer position with x,y,z, experience.” So if you’ve got something that you know is very relevant and strong for what they’re looking for… you don’t need a twenty-five word subject line but be very quick and succinct about how you have the goods.

Ben Forstag:

Jenny, I got you on this one. Because no way is putting my name on a subject line going to open any doors for you.

Mac Prichard:

I think you have a following out there, Ben.

So we’ve got left turn, right turn on the count of three. What do you all say? ONE, TWO, THREE!

Audience:

Right turn!

Mac Prichard:

Alright. Now we’re going to turn to you, the audience. Jessica, is someone standing by with a question perhaps?

Jessica Black:

I do, I have several. So the first question we have comes from Taireez. Taireez, come on up.

Mac Prichard:

Oh Taireez, okay.

Taireez:

Hello. What should you should never do at an interview?

Mac Prichard:

Ben?

Ben Forstag:

Never do? Like the one thing that would completely torpedo the interview?

Taireez:

Never, never, never. Absolutely never.

Ben Forstag:

So…

Taireez:

And I don’t mean show up in a bikini.

Ben Forstag:

Someone over here is thinking on the same wavelength as me. So there’s a reason they tell you to never wear open toed shoes at the interview and that’s because the one thing that would completely throw off the interview and ruin everything would be if you clipped your toenails in there.

Taireez:

Oh god.

Mac Prichard:

That’s quite an image, Ben.

Ben Forstag:

But would you consider someone?….

Mac Prichard:

Okay, let’s move on.

Jessica Black:

I mean, to be fair, that is good advice.

Taireez:

It is good advice.

Jenny Foss:

I cannot top that. And now that you say that, one of reasons I left Corporate America is my cubicle mate clipped her toenails in her cube.

Now I would say, in an interview, especially if it’s one of your earliest interviews, a big faux pas, unless you’re directly asked, is to talk about salary expectations, ask about what vacation they offer, or what other kinds of perks come with the deal. You will be in a much better position to discuss and negotiate those things once you’ve established what you can walk through their doors and deliver. Because at the early stage of that “courting”, that’s really what they care about.

Mac Prichard:

Alright, audience, what do you think? Left turn or right turn?

Audience:

[mixed responses of both right and left turn]

Mac Prichard:

Alright.

Ben Forstag:

Whoa.

Mac Prichard:

I think you’re losing control, Jenny.

Jenny Foss:

You guys.

Ben Forstag:

I demand a roll call vote.

Mac Prichard:

I think I heard your wife shouting out there.

Okay.

Jenny Foss:

I think we’ve got voter fraud.

Mac Prichard:

Alright, I think we have another question. Do we, Jessica?

Jessica Black:

We do. We have a couple more.  So Yasmin, here, has a question.

Mac Prichard:

Yasmin?

Yasmin:

Alright, how do you network when you’re an introvert and you prefer to stay quiet in social situations?

Mac Prichard:

Good question. Ben?

Ben Forstag:

So you don’t want to talk?

Yasmin:

Yeah.

Ben Forstag:

Okay, so here’s what I would do; I would find a group of people that’s already talking to each other and don’t try to get in the middle of the group, just stand awkwardly right around them, and just make eye contact with people. Stare them down. Burn holes in the backs of their heads.

Mac Prichard:

Wow.

Ben Forstag:

It will get their attention.

Jessica Black:

For better or for worse.

Mac Prichard:

Okay, that’s interesting advice. Jenny?

Jenny Foss:

One of the best tips that I got years ago from somebody at a networking event here in Portland, she does this at events: volunteer to work the name badge table at the event. Because then you meet and interact with every person at the event before the mingling starts and you know who your friendlies are. So when it comes time to do the networking, you can actually know who you feel comfortable approaching and it’s a lot less stressful. Really, for anyone, but certainly for introverts.

Mac Prichard:

Good. Alright audience, let’s put it to you. Left turn or right turn?

Audience:

Right turn!

Mac Prichard:

Alright.

Ben Forstag:

Even I’m voting right turn on that one.

Mac Prichard:

Alright.

Lillian:

I think we’re going in a circle.

Mac Prichard:

It could be. But there are more questions to come, Lillian, so stand by.

Ben Forstag:

Anytime now, I’m going to win one of these.

Mac Prichard:

Alright.

Jessica Black:

You almost had it with the toenails. But you know, just barely.

Mac Prichard:

Alright. I think Jessica’s about to throw you a bone here.

Jessica Black:

Well I’m not, but Scott has a question.

Mac Prichard:

Alright. Scott, take the mic.

Scott:

Yeah. How early should you show up for a job interview?

Mac Prichard:

Good question.

Ben Forstag:

That’s a good one. So my mother always told me that the early bird gets the worm, and my father-in-law always says that people who wake up really early are just naturally better people.

So what I would do is, I would get there fifteen to thirty minutes before the office even opens and just be waiting for the hiring manager at the door. Now, bring them a cup of coffee or something, but you want to make sure that they know you’re there and you’re interested.

Mac Prichard:

Okay, that’s an interesting answer, too.

Jessica Black:

No, no, no.

Mac Prichard:

So Jessica actually weighed in on that one. Jenny, what do you think?

Jenny Foss:

Thank you, Jessica. That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.

Get there with plenty of time to navigate, if you’re here, the Portland traffic, if you’re elsewhere, the traffic where you live. If you are more than fifteen minutes early, hang out in the parking lot. Check your iPhone, check your notes, relax, deep breathing, and then walk in when there are ten to fifteen minutes max to spare, and check in for the interview.

The last thing you want to do is look weirdly like you have nothing else to do with your time. But also, it’s disrespectful of those with whom you’re interviewing’s time, because if they’re running every which way and only going to be ready at that moment when it’s your time, it’s awkward for them to know that you’re sitting there waiting.

Mac Prichard:

Alright, get there at the crack of dawn, or ten to fifteen minutes ahead of time? Audience, what do you think? Left turn or right turn?

Audience:

Right turn!

Mac Prichard:

Okay. One more question, Jessica?

Jessica Black:

We have one more question from the audience yeah. From Susan.

Mac Prichard:

Okay.

Ben Forstag:

This one’s a troublemaker.

Jessica Black:

A friend of Mac’s List…. Susan?

Susan:

What is the best way to follow up after an interview?

Mac Prichard:

Ben, what are your thoughts?

Ben Forstag:

……I’m gathering them.

Mac Prichard:

Okay.

Ben Forstag:

It’s a slow process.

So you know they say looking for work is a lot like dating? So I’m going to pull a strategy that worked all the time for me. Which is; you don’t call them back, you don’t email them back, you ghost. Because if you play hard to get, they’re going to come after you.

Mac Prichard:

Okay.

Ben Forstag:

There’s at least one person in this room who that worked for.

Mac Prichard:

Alright, well play hard to get, that’s one strategy.

Jessica Black:

I doubt it.

Mac Prichard:

Jenny?

Jenny Foss:

I was fully expecting a, “Call them one hundred times a day until they call you back.”

Ben Forstag:

That would be crass.

Jenny Foss:

I’m going to say, that process begins before you leave the interview. One of the last questions you ask is, “What’s your timeline? What’s your decision making timeline? What are the next steps?” Because they might say, “You know what? We’re not going to do a thing for three weeks because Freddie’s out of town for the next couple of weeks.” Or they might say, “In the next two days we’re going to be interviewing two more candidates, trying to make our decision by Friday.” Any which way, asking that question will give you a pulse on when it’s appropriate to follow up. If they blow by that time frame that they expressed to you was their time frame, it’s perfectly cool to contact them and say, “Hey, I know you’re still probably finalizing your plans. You had mentioned to me that you were going to be firming things up by Friday. Just wanted to touch base and see, is there any additional input you need from me to help with your decision making?”

Mac Prichard:

Okay, well audience, it’s up to you. Left turn? Right turn?

Audience:

Right turn!

Mac Prichard:

Alright. Well we’ve got one last question.

Ben Forstag:

0 for 7.

Jenny Foss:

I burned you on that one.

Mac Prichard:

Alright. Now, our goal at Mac’s List is to connect creative people with meaningful and purposeful work. So, seriously, Ben, Jenny, I get the sense from working with both of you that in your current role, you’re doing something that you really love and you care about

So, my final question is: What is the one thing you most love about your job?

Ben, would you like to go first?

Ben Forstag:

So, it’s probably the Mac’s List staff timeshare in Cabo.

Mac Prichard:

You’re not supposed to tell people about that.

Ben Forstag:

Well I’ve been told that after ten years of work, I get two nights and three days there. So.

Mac Prichard:

Tuesdays through Thursdays. Right.

Ben Forstag:

Yeah. No, I think it’s no secret that looking for work sucks. It’s awful, it’s stressful, and when you meet people who are in that situation, they’re often in a pretty bad situation in their life. I’d say the best part of my job is…not meeting people at that point, but meeting with them, sharing with them whatever knowledge I might have to share with them. Then meeting them again, three months later, four months later, maybe it’s at a networking event, or maybe they’ve shot me an email. Maybe we just bump into each other on the street, and being at a completely different place in their life. They’ve found a job they really like and they’re completely different people. And playing some small role in that, because the truth of the matter is, job seekers find their jobs, all I can do is offer a little bit of insight and maybe some strategy. Being a part of that process though, I find that really rewarding.

Mac Prichard:

Okay, well thank you, Ben. Jenny, how about you? What do you love most about your job?

Jenny Foss:

Ben completely stole my answer, but I’m going to go on a little tangent of that, because certainly knowing that you’ve made a genuine difference for somebody who was feeling stuck or overwhelmed, and seeing them push forward and land somewhere great, is…I can’t even describe how fulfilling that is. But I think one of the things I love doing more than anything in my job is looking at all the…I like to call them ‘puzzle pieces’ of someone’s career and life, and goals, and helping them figure out how to put those puzzle pieces together in a way that will not only give them forward motion and help them tell their stories in a compelling way. But end up landing somewhere they didn’t even think about before we started the conversation, but is just the perfect culmination of their strengths, their passions, and their goals. So for me that’s a really big part of why I keep doing what I do. It’s intense and busy and sometimes stressful. You’ve got a lot of stress coming your way when you’re working with job seekers. But that’s what gets me out of bed everyday, to do what I do.

Mac Prichard:

Okay, well thank you. Thank you both. Audience, I don’t know about you, but I think those answers were both about perfect. So what do you say? Just do it straight down the middle?

Yeah. Alright.

Well that wraps up our game, and that is Left turn, Right turn. Let’s give our contestants and our audience members a big hand.

Jenny and Ben, thanks again. Let’s give another round of applause for tonight’s guests.

Let’s hear it for Anna Walsh! Harris Newman! Lisa Kislingbury-Anderson! Jared Mees! Trujillo, featuring Freddie Trujillo!

And your Mac’s List team; Jessica Black, Ben Forstag, Becky Thomas, and Anneka Winters!

And most importantly, a huge thanks to you all, the Find Your Dream Job listeners. It’s been a fantastic 100 episodes. We can’t wait to share the next one hundred with you.

And thanks for letting us help you find your dream job! Goodnight everybody!

How do dream jobs happen? We asked an entrepreneur, a career coach, job seekers, and each other in this special episode of Find Your Dream Job.

We recorded our 100th episode live, in our hometown of Portland, in front of about 100 of our closest friends, and it was a wonderful night. If you were there, reminisce with the full audio. If you missed it, you’re in luck – we captured all the audio in this podcast!  Take a listen.

This Week’s Guest

Jared Mees is cofounder of Tender Loving Empire, a local-focused record label and collection of stores featuring handmade goods. Jared is a musician and art lover who turned his passion into his career.

Also in this Episode

  • Crowd favorite and expert career coach Jenny Foss, a.k.a. JobJenny, spoke to Mac and soundly defeated Ben in a friendly round of career trivia.
  • Live music and a chat with Freddy Trujillo, who wrote our podcast theme song.
  • Real people got onstage to share their experiences with job searching, job loss, and more.
  • The Mac’s List team recalled their favorite moments from the past 99 weekly shows.